Maywood, Illinois (Chicago, Naperville, Cicero: 2010, low crime, credit)

[ajolotl]

This is a very different story. I appreciate that Oak Park has a little bit of a vibe on the street. Frankly, I'm going crazy in Beverly -- a little too peaceful for me. Park Ridge sounds nice but might bore someone who wants a little bit of an urban/suburban experience.

Originally Posted by Mister Mappy

Oak Park, hands down. Park Ridge has some great homes in it, and a nice downtown, but it's a relatively boring area, and its neighboring areas (Edison Park in Chicago, and Niles) are pretty much the same. It would also take a lot longer from Park Ridge than Oak Park to get downtown. Plus Oak Park has 24 public transportation, whereas Park Ridge does not. I've heard many good things about Oak Park-River Forest HS, so I'm sure the schools are relatively similar education wise. I don't think I want to live in a place like Park Ridge, where you're looked at suspiciously for not being white.

[Mister Mappy]

No, Park Ridge does not offer the same proximity to the city, at least public transportation wise. There is a Metra line running through it, but no CTA train lines. The Blue Line does have a stop at Cumberland just outside the southern border of Park Ridge, but it's nowhere near the center of town. Also, only one CTA bus runs into Park Ridge, while Oak Park has several. The downtowns are relative similar, and the Pickwick theater is beautiful. Oak Park's downtown is a bit bigger, though. Plus it seems Oak Park has more things in general throughout than Park Ridge does. Also near the north end, Park Ridge just turns into blah suburbia.

[Mister Mappy]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

This is a very different story. I appreciate that Oak Park has a little bit of a vibe on the street. Frankly, I'm going crazy in Beverly -- a little too peaceful for me. Park Ridge sounds nice but might bore someone who wants a little bit of an urban/suburban experience.

Nope, no real street vibe at all in Park Ridge.

[Mister Mappy]

Oh, I almost forgot, Hillary Clinton is from Park Ridge.

[johnm68]

Park Ridge is nice, but a lot further from downtown Chicago--its further west than Oak Park (Oak Park's western boundary is Harlem--Park Ridge doesn't start until you're west of Harlem ) and a lot further north. Plus, there's only the metra--walking to the el is not feasible for most of the village.

I lived in Edison Park for a number of years--we'd go to Park Ridge once in a while, but really, there's not a lot going on there. WHen we wanted to go to dinner locally, we'd stay in EP or go somewhere in the city--Park Ridge does not have a lot of interesting dining options (your tastes, of course, may differ). Theres a reason the strech of Northwest Highway in Edison Park is full of bars and restaurants--to give the Park Ridge residents somewhere to go.

Park Ridge has its charms--some beautiful homes, and a good high school (if you're in the right section of town to go there). And, I am quite sure it has a lower crime rate than Oak Park. Still, my own tastes would run more to Oak Park (although I don't live there, and never considered living there, either).

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by promis1

And yes, one borders Edison park and the other Austin-

Well, this makes all of the difference in the world!!! Park Ridge isn't stuck between Maywood and Austin, and Edison Park has always had one of the lowest crime rates in the city. The far Northwest Side is the largest most uniformly safe part of the city--very different from the urban hell hole of Austin.

Originally Posted by promis1

Park Ridge borders the city also, and has nowhere near the viloent crime as Oak park

"Nowhere near" is vastly overstating the difference in crime levels. Oak Park isn't some violent crime hell hole. Violent crime in Oak Park may be higher than many suburbs, but it's still really quite low. Oak Park is a safe community. You're making it sound like there are daily gun battles in the street, and this is far from the truth!

Originally Posted by promis1

When someone of color steps into Park Ridge, they are noticed much more. And people will be alert to not be a victim of crime.

I don't know about that. You're making Park Ridge sound hostile to different races, and to me it seems to be almost as tolerant as Oak Park. It's actually become a very liberal community. Why do fewer black people live there? Two reasons: (1) Lack of cheap rental housing, and (2) it's not surrounded by black neighborhoods--and never has been.

Park Ridge is a very nice community. But I still prefer Oak Park for the density, housing stock, CTA access, and walkable ammenities. Much of Park Ridge is your typical automobile-centered suburb, though the lots are smaller and the downtown is quite nice (or "Uptown", I should say).

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by aragx6

I like your post, but this quoted section doesn't make any sense to me. Chicago (as well as the vast majority of cities in the U.S.) have been getting better in the last decade, not worse.

I can't talk about most other cities. I agree that N.Y. has vastly improved since the times in the late 60s when the great garbage strikes compelled people to wrap their garbage in boxes like gifts and leave the boxes in unlocked cars so that the "gifts" would get stolen.

I've lived in Washington D.C. and I've seen pockets of improvement. A dear friend who has lived in Baltimore all of his life has seen similar small improvements but nothing overall in 40 years.

As for Chicago, the statistics may show that the city is vastly improved but stats are selective and Can lie. All I really have is anecdotal evidence.

There is no question that certain neighborhoods are better. They tend to be the lakefront neighborhoods. Highschool friends who grew up in Wicker Park and Bucktown have told me that they marvel at the change. I lived in Lincoln Park in the 1960s when it was predominantly an ethnic Irish and German community. I worked in Uptown for over a decade. It really hasn't changed much since the 1970s.

Don't get me wrong. There were always gangs and crime. But the truth is, the vast majority of urban people didn't have to deal with it. They were not victimized on the streets or in the schools. They were not afraid to walk at night. The gang and criminal culture was a Sub-culture, not something that the average citizen had to think about every day.

You've made me think about what I consider decline. There is no doubt that neighborhoods at the lakefront have improved. I remember when River North had a skid row. How has the lakefront improved? The prices are very high, so only the really wealthy can afford a single family detached house. There are wonderful bars, restaurants, chi-chi businesses, new luxury housing, etc. I maintain, though, that the crime and types of crime has gone up since the late 1960s in many areas. When I was a student teacher in Lincoln Park, one never had to be afraid to walk at night. There were no rapes and street robberies that I knew of. I'm not saying they didn't happen---they just didn't happen to anyone I knew or in the neighborhood where I lived and worked. Lincoln Park was integrated and had much more a community feel than it has today. I remember when eveyone in the neighborhood knew not to walk south of Armitage because of crime (I lived at off of Armitage and Halsted near the highschool) but people weren't afraid. Lakefront neighborhoods were much more mixed in terms of age, race, income, and family makeup than they are now. It was common to see old people walking the streets as well as kids playing around the neighborhoods. I can't recall the last time I saw children riding bikes alone down Broadway or Fullerton or Lincoln Avenue. Where ARE the gangs of kids today? Their families have been priced/taxed out. There are virtually NO families. No seniors, unless they live in senior citizen apartments. They don't own homes. There was true integration in terms of class. That's long gone. To me, that's decline. Decline is more than just crime statistics.

The lakefront today is young, affluent, and transient. Transient is the key word. Chicago urbanity was never about transience. It was about community. Chicago used to be called "The City of Neighborhoods". Neighborhoods meant more than names. They were places where people KNEW one another intimately. People worshipped together. They worked together. And because they knew one another, the crimes so prevalent today (rapes, home invasions, robberies, etc.) didn't happen. All of that is gone. Today much of urban life is anonymous and impersonal. To me, that is decline. Decline in quality of living. In what made the city such a wonderful place.

It's a generational thing. Chicago is no longer a town. It's more like New York every day.

And there are many who would argue that the improvment of the lakefront happened at the cost of neglecting the rest of the city. The western border of Chicago along Austin Avenue and Harlem is a disgrace. City neighborhoods to the west have, for the most part, been abandoned by the middle class. Jefferson Park and Portage Park have not held up well. As a child I lived in Jefferson Park. You didn't have to lock your car or house. Try that today. There are parts of the western border that are shocking. The infrastructure is a disgrace. Graffitti, glass, broken sidewalks, etc.

Anyone who has lived in these areas can tell you they have declined. I don't care what propaganda the city of Chicago puts out. Many parts of Chicago that were once nice are kaput.

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

This is a very different story. I appreciate that Oak Park has a little bit of a vibe on the street. Frankly, I'm going crazy in Beverly -- a little too peaceful for me. Park Ridge sounds nice but might bore someone who wants a little bit of an urban/suburban experience.

That's interesting about Beverly. I don't know anyone who ever lived there. Park Ridge would bore you to death. Oak Park, would win hands down. And it's interesting that you used the phrase "urban/suburban". Until recently, Forest Park used that phrase to market itself as an entity.

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by promis1

Great post overall, but is Oak park really that safe? In a town that is prosperous like this one, should violent crimes be happening here?

Crime is up everywhere. Oak Park is as safe as it gets for an urbanized area.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

I can't talk about most other cities. I agree that N.Y. has vastly improved since the times in the late 60s when the great garbage strikes compelled people to wrap their garbage in boxes like gifts and leave the boxes in unlocked cars so that the "gifts" would get stolen.

I've lived in Washington D.C. and I've seen pockets of improvement. A dear friend who has lived in Baltimore all of his life has seen similar small improvements but nothing overall in 40 years.

As for Chicago, the statistics may show that the city is vastly improved but stats are selective and Can lie. All I really have is anecdotal evidence.

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It's a generational thing. Chicago is no longer a town. It's more like New York every day.

And there are many who would argue that the improvment of the lakefront happened at the cost of neglecting the rest of the city. The western border of Chicago along Austin Avenue and Harlem is a disgrace. City neighborhoods to the west have, for the most part, been abandoned by the middle class. Jefferson Park and Portage Park have not held up well. As a child I lived in Jefferson Park. You didn't have to lock your car or house. Try that today. There are parts of the western border that are shocking. The infrastructure is a disgrace. Graffitti, glass, broken sidewalks, etc.

Anyone who has lived in these areas can tell you they have declined. I don't care what propaganda the city of Chicago puts out. Many parts of Chicago that were once nice are kaput.

All very good points. I've only lived here since the early 1990s, so my reference point is different. That being said, a lot of the problems you mentioned are not unique to Chicago, but are the result of larger national and international shifts. The old way of doing business and living life was swept away by the global economy and Federally-subsidized suburbanization. Chicago has been relatively fortunate to successfully retool itself from a manufacturing hub to a knowledge hub which successfully lures those transplants from all over. Trying to maintain the old economy in the face of a new worldwide paradigm leaves you with Detroit.