Maywood, Illinois (Cicero, Arlington Heights, Berwyn: safe area, buyers, school)

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

There are virtually NO families. No seniors, unless they live in senior citizen apartments. They don't own homes.

I agreed with much of your post, but challenge this notion. There has been a change in the gentrification of the last ten years or so in that families ARE once again moving into the north lakefront neighborhoods. The biggest difference has been along the route of the Brown Line. Areas like western Lincoln Park, western Lakeview, Roscoe Village, North Center, and Lincoln Square are BUSTLING with kids. You can't walk down a sidewalk in these neighborhoods without dodging strollers. You'll see chalk drawings and hopscotch boards drawn on sidewalks, tricycles in yards, etc. People are even sending their kids to the CPS schools in some cases (like Nettlehorst, Blaine, etc.). Unlike the first wave of gentrification, which was mostly young childless people, this new wave is here to stay. Of course, they have MUCH more money than the families who lived there years ago...

I live in Buena Park (southern Uptown) and have a young daughter. I had never thought of our area as that kid-friendly until recently. This past year our neighborhood group put a Halloween event together on the 4000-4200 blocks of Kenmore including trick-or-treating, and HUNDREDS of kids showed up. Many will leave when their kids reach school age, but many will also stay. Daycares are full. Pre-Schools have huge waiting lists. Heck, even "Wiggle Worms" at the Old Town School of Folk Music is hard to get in to. The North Side is now SWIMMING in children. I'll be very curious to see the new Census numbers in 2010. Many neighborhoods that were still Hispanic in 2000 may see a decrease in the number of kids, but I think other neighborhoods will see an increase.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

Crime is up everywhere. Oak Park is as safe as it gets for an urbanized area.

I'm actually surprised that crime in Oak Park isn't higher, considering some of it's neighbors...

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

I agreed with much of your post, but challenge this notion. There has been a change in the gentrification of the last ten years or so in that families ARE once again moving into the north lakefront neighborhoods. The biggest difference has been along the route of the Brown Line. Areas like western Lincoln Park, western Lakeview, Roscoe Village, North Center, and Lincoln Square are BUSTLING with kids. You can't walk down a sidewalk in these neighborhoods without dodging strollers. You'll see chalk drawings and hopscotch boards drawn on sidewalks, tricycles in yards, etc. People are even sending their kids to the CPS schools in some cases (like Nettlehorst, Blaine, etc.). Unlike the first wave of gentrification, which was mostly young childless people, this new wave is here to stay. Of course, they have MUCH more money than the families who lived there years ago...

I live in Buena Park (southern Uptown) and have a young daughter. I had never thought of our area as that kid-friendly until recently. This past year our neighborhood group put a Halloween event together on the 4000-4200 blocks of Kenmore including trick-or-treating, and HUNDREDS of kids showed up. Many will leave when their kids reach school age, but many will also stay. Daycares are full. Pre-Schools have huge waiting lists. Heck, even "Wiggle Worms" at the Old Town School of Folk Music is hard to get in to. The North Side is now SWIMMING in children.

I probably didn't make myself clear. In talking about the disappearance of children, I was referring to Lincoln Park. The other areas you spoke of Lincoln Square, Roscoe Village and North Center never went through periods of sharp decline. They held up well. They were affordable alternatives to Lincoln Park and Lakeview and were marketed as such. Young people were steered there to keep them in the city.

As for Uptown, I knew Buena Park before it got its name. I worked at Wilson and Beacon for many years. There were always kids in Uptown and I'm glad to hear that there are many today.

Don't get me wrong, everybody. I'm no city basher. I love the city and I am thrilled to see so many young people raising children there. My only point is that crime, drugs, and gangs were NOT a predominant part of the urban landscape until fairly recently. It is gratifying to know that the so many care enough to fight for the livability of their communities.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

Well said, Bru. Moving anywhere is risky business if you don't know anyone out that way. It's more than packing a few things and moving to a hopefully "better" place. It can mean changing one's entire way of life.

For an urbanite like myself who will probably have to move in a few years, I cannot intellectually imagine the differences. For our family it will mean a second car. Up to now we've never needed one. I have my butcher, my baker and the places I can go to get my husband his Czech food when he has a taste for it. Great beer is around the corner, etc.

But I understand being fed up with the nonsense that passes for modern "urbanity". Crime, gangs, poor schools, etc. were simply not a predominant part of the urban scene a few decades ago. Now for younger people, they think that things have always been like that. It hurts to see neighborhoods decline. Change for the better is one thing, but decline is hard to take.

.

Very sad as you seem a credit to your community and have a good understanding about what's going on in the world. But as I recall you live in Cicero, I don’t blame you. Cicero isn’t diverse, at all. It’s as homogenous as Naperville but without the amenities, good schools, or low crime rate. So why bother? Hopefully, Cicero will get it together (or some act of God will occur) and it will start to gentrify sometime soon. It is not without attributes, that is for certain. But it's definitely a case where a lack of diversity is really hurting.

I wouldn't let your experience there color your view of the entire City and inner-ring. I concur with those who believe your statement on that is incorrect. Crime has gone down quite a bit in urbanized areas which are improving, as the "city tolerant" people who are moving there aren't about to put up with any BS. In our 'hood, if we see something which looks even slightly out of whack, we're on the phone with the cops. It's just about picking an area where there are people like that.

I hope you stay somewhere in the area and don't go Ex-Burb on us!

[oakparkdude]

I remember going to Lincoln Square back in the 90s and seeing a bunch of young adults. I went back last year and the kiddos were all over the place.

I think Chicago went into long-term decline starting from the 1950s until the 1980s. Things have picked up since then, but improvements don't happen overnight. They take a generation or more.

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

All very good points. I've only lived here since the early 1990s, so my reference point is different. That being said, a lot of the problems you mentioned are not unique to Chicago, but are the result of larger national and international shifts. The old way of doing business and living life was swept away by the global economy and Federally-subsidized suburbanization. Chicago has been relatively fortunate to successfully retool itself from a manufacturing hub to a knowledge hub which successfully lures those transplants from all over. Trying to maintain the old economy in the face of a new worldwide paradigm leaves you with Detroit.

True! Well said.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by promis1

As far as Elmwood Park goes, I believe according to the us census bureau 2005-2007 sample survey- the town has roughly 17% Hispanics. Berwyn had over 50%- so all of your points really stink.

Oh, and Elmwood Park consists of huge Italian, Polish, and Irish population that does not embrace diversity. The most diversity this town encounters is Johnies Beef, with west side ghetto trash- eating here.

The big difference between the two communities, though, is that the whites moving into Berwyn (about 50% of the buyers and rising per a recent realtor survey) are often moving here from City neighborhoods or Oak Park and don't care that it's 50% Hispanic. If anything, many of them even consider that a plus because it represents diversity. Can you say the same about the Caucasian population of Elmwood Park? Your post answers that question in the negative. As such, I'd be more worried about white flight and the resulting instability in Elmwood Park than I would in Berwyn.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

I probably didn't make myself clear. In talking about the disappearance of children, I was referring to Lincoln Park.

And I'm saying that there are a LOT of kids in Lincoln Park right now. The difference is that most of them have nannies and get driven a few blocks to school in Mommy's Range Rover. Even East Lakeview and the area around "Boystown" has become more of a family neighborhood, though the young partying 20-somethings are certainly a large presence.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by BRU67

The big difference between the two communities, though, is that the whites moving into Berwyn (about 50% of the buyers and rising per a recent realtor survey) are often moving here from City neighborhoods or Oak Park and don't care that it's 50% Hispanic. If anything, many of them even consider that a plus because it represents diversity. Can you say the same about the Caucasian population of Elmwood Park? Your post answers that question in the negative. As such, I'd be more worried about white flight and the resulting instability in Elmwood Park than I would in Berwyn.

I actually feel better about the future of Berwyn than Elmwood Park as well... Though the Metra stop in Elmwood Park could be a saving grace. I think both communities have good long-term prospects if the "Peak Oil" scenario starts to play out.

[Mister Mappy]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

And there are many who would argue that the improvment of the lakefront happened at the cost of neglecting the rest of the city. The western border of Chicago along Austin Avenue and Harlem is a disgrace. City neighborhoods to the west have, for the most part, been abandoned by the middle class. Jefferson Park and Portage Park have not held up well. As a child I lived in Jefferson Park. You didn't have to lock your car or house. Try that today. There are parts of the western border that are shocking. The infrastructure is a disgrace. Graffitti, glass, broken sidewalks, etc.

Anyone who has lived in these areas can tell you they have declined. I don't care what propaganda the city of Chicago puts out. Many parts of Chicago that were once nice are kaput.

I also grew up in Jefferson Park near Higgins & Austin in the 70's and early 80's. We moved after my freshman year of high school. When I go through Jefferson Park now, it doesn't seem all that different. It is more Hispanic, and definitely more ethnically Polish, but it still seems like the safe area it was back when I grew up.

I work near Cicero & Roscoe in Portage Park, and it has definitely become much more Hispanic, yet it doesn't seem too horribly unsafe, and the neighborhood is well kept.