Conservative suburbs (Chicago, Waukegan, Wheaton: renting, crimes, home)

[city414]

Originally Posted by promis1

Its kind of ironic that the majority of interracial offspring(black/white) will consider themselves black before white. I have seen this example time and time again- thus emphasizing my point that interracial relationships water down and eliminate European culture.

whats european about american culture? who put the one drop rule in place deal with it

[promis1]

Originally Posted by city414

whats european about american culture? who put the one drop rule in place deal with it

Lets face it-Europeans(Italians, IRish, Germans, Polish,etc.) built the great American cities that we have today. Our families built these cities, one brick at a time, and other races that shall remain nameless, have destroyed many of these once great areas. Just look at the architecture, for example on some of the mini mansions in Humboldt Park. Heck, look at that beautiful park that was once a great place to live. That lagoon was once a beautiful body of water in Humboldt Park- now it is has been used in recent past to dump dead bodies of gang members. Sad how things can change. Change is not always a good thing.

[promis1]

Originally Posted by promis1

Lets face it-Europeans(Italians, IRish, Germans, Polish,etc.) built the great American cities that we have today. Our families built these cities, one brick at a time, and other races that shall remain nameless, have destroyed many of these once great areas. Just look at the architecture, for example on some of the mini mansions in Humboldt Park. Heck, look at that beautiful park that was once a great place to live. That lagoon was once a beautiful body of water in Humboldt Park- now it is has been used in recent past to dump dead bodies of gang members. Sad how things can change. Change is not always a good thing.

Still waiting for an ultra-liberal comeback to this truth.

[IlWesleyanGuy]

It seems that these Chicago Suburbs threads usually become boards devoted to bashing races (directly & indirectly). I personally think it is disheartening. I understand that people have preferences of where they desire to live even if it has a lot to do with the racial make-up of the area. I can accept that. What's so irritating to see are people, and all of you know those that I am talking about, who suggest that it is an asset to have residents of one particular minority group but not others. Or to suggest that certain groups of minorities can be directly linked or correlated to crime (but won't mention the many variables at play). I mean this thread is suppose to be about the more conservative suburbs and not surprisingly we're talking about this junk. This is just junk. Why can't we have more intelligent discussion and cut out this junk. Sometimes I can't believe the ignorance and arrogance that is displayed. I know we share something called free speech but this ignorance and arrogance are an insult to the intelligence of the rest of us.

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by IlWesleyanGuy

It seems that these Chicago Suburbs threads usually become boards devoted to bashing races (directly & indirectly). I personally think it is disheartening. I understand that people have preferences of where they desire to live even if it has a lot to do with the racial make-up of the area. I can accept that. What's so irritating to see are people, and all of you know those that I am talking about, who suggest that it is an asset to have residents of one particular minority group but not others. Or to suggest that certain groups of minorities can be directly linked or correlated to crime (but won't mention the many variables at play). I mean this thread is suppose to be about the more conservative suburbs and not surprisingly we're talking about this junk. This is just junk. Why can't we have more intelligent discussion and cut out this junk. Sometimes I can't believe the ignorance and arrogance that is displayed. I know we share something called free speech but this ignorance and arrogance are an insult to the intelligence of the rest of us.

Some of the comments seem like junk to you, but let me ask you a few questions. You sound like a reasonably fairminded guy.

1. Have you, personally, ever lived through the violent "change" of your hometown community from one race (yours) to another race?

2. Have you, personally, experienced block-busting and everything that accompanies it? (i.e. graffitti, arson, broken windows, etc.)

3. Were you or a family member ever a victim of violent crime by someone from the incoming minority group?

4. Have you, or anyone in your family been forced to sell a long-time family business in such a town because you were threatened or robbed repeatedly?

5. Have you, or anyone in your family or a friend beaten or otherwise harassed at the local school during the "change"?

6. Have you experienced your place of worship change in favor of the new group so quickly that long-time clergy were transferred out (without the input of long-time worshippers who built the church) and you could no longer attend a worship service in your own language?

7. Have you ever experienced your neighborhood taken over by a criminal enterprise which sets up "shop" on your street? (i.e. drugs, prostitution, etc.)

These are some questions that I want you to sincerely consider. There are people on this board who have gone through some or all of the things that I have listed here. We are people who come from all over, and there are multiple generations who post here. What may seem like "junk" to you was or is still a very painful and significant part of someone else's life. This may explain to you why you see some of the posts you do. It is not "arrogance" to post opinions based on one's personal experiences. We're talking about people's lives here. You may not agree or like what others say, but they are certainly entitled to say it.

[IlWesleyanGuy]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

Some of the comments seem like junk to you, but let me ask you a few questions. You sound like a reasonably fairminded guy.

1. Have you, personally, ever lived through the violent "change" of your hometown community from one race (yours) to another race?

2. Have you, personally, experienced block-busting and everything that accompanies it? (i.e. graffitti, arson, broken windows, etc.)

3. Were you or a family member ever a victim of violent crime by someone from the incoming minority group?

4. Have you, or anyone in your family been forced to sell a long-time family business in such a town because you were threatened or robbed repeatedly?

5. Have you, or anyone in your family or a friend beaten or otherwise harassed at the local school during the "change"?

6. Have you experienced your place of worship change in favor of the new group so quickly that long-time clergy were transferred out (without the input of long-time worshippers who built the church) and you could no longer attend a worship service in your own language?

7. Have you ever experienced your neighborhood taken over by a criminal enterprise which sets up "shop" on your street? (i.e. drugs, prostitution, etc.)

These are some questions that I want you to sincerely consider. There are people on this board who have gone through some or all of the things that I have listed here. We are people who come from all over, and there are multiple generations who post here. What may seem like "junk" to you was or is still a very painful and significant part of someone else's life. This may explain to you why you see some of the posts you do. It is not "arrogance" to post opinions based on one's personal experiences. We're talking about people's lives here. You may not agree or like what others say, but they are certainly entitled to say it.

I can stay that fortunately none of this has never happened to me and hopefully never will. If it has happened to you then I'm sorry. With that being said it think what I previously posted still stands, so let me restate. WHy are people posting things like it is an asset to have one minority and a burden to have another. Am I the only one who feels this view is superficial. This is an ignorant and arrogant view/comment. Like many who have posted even on this thread, its deeper than race or skin color. You have to take a look at education, poverty and environment. And maybe the minorities that bungalowdweller described have had bad experiences with these factors. I'm sorry but I cannot look at a person and determine that he or she is an asset or not an asset, respectable or not respectable based on their race. For communities, it is an asset to have hardworking, productive, respectable, intelligent, well-informed and caring citizens. This kind of citizen is not limited to one or two particular races.

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by IlWesleyanGuy

WHy are people posting things like it is an asset to have one minority and a burden to have another.

This is an ignorant and arrogant view/comment. Like many who have posted even on this thread, its deeper than race or skin color. You have to take a look at education, poverty and environment. I'm sorry but I cannot look at a person and determine that he or she is an asset or not an asset, respectable or not respectable based on their race. For communities, it is an asset to have hardworking, productive, respectable, intelligent, well-informed and caring citizens. This kind of citizen is not limited to one or two particular races.

You are a high-minded person but you don't see the whole issue. You are chalking things up to racism that cannot be attributed to racism but rather, sadly, experience. NO ONE is saying that good citizens are limited to one or two races.

Your first statement/question "why are people posting things like it is an asset to have one minority and a burden to have another" is a good one. But it is neither arrogant nor ignorant. People have come to these conclusions through experience and objective data.

For example, do you know that Oak Park watches very carefully their percentage of racial makeup and in areas that are considered "too black" perspective black homeowners have been steered to Westchester and North Berwyn? And that such "steering" is considered l-e-g-a-l?

NOT because the O.P. Housing Authority doesn't want black people. (At least that is what they would have told you at the time.) O.P. is determined to STAY integrated and they understand that after any area reaches a certain percentage point of a-n-y race, that area is resegregated to the predominant race.

It is also an objective truth that certain minority groups are over-represented in terms of poverty, criminality, educational attainment, under or unemployment, number of people to a home,etc. Why would neighbors care about this? Because it affects property value and quality of life. Because it effects taxation. Because it can dramatically raise homeowners,business, and auto rates, to name a few. There are a whole host of factors at play. Why do you think that entire businesses and factories moved out of urban locations to the suburbs over 30 years ago? Finding sufficiently qualified employees is a major reason, as is crime and increased cost of doing business.

Areas that are seen as less desirable decline. Many of the minorites living in those areas who are hardworking and upstanding won't stay either because they want their investment in their home to grow, not stagnate. And they will openly tell you that they want to live in a town that is predominantly white because they know that towns that are majority white tend to have better school systems, less crime and are more attractive. This isn't racist or arrogant---it's a fact of life.

When neighborhoods reach the racial "tipping point" many people are no longer interested in how decent or wonderful the incoming people are. Many times, most of the people coming in ARE decent. The issue becomes a financial one. Since you've never experienced any of the examples I've outlined previously, I can tell you that you probably aren't aware that a house or business in a town that is changing is worth much more at the time of the initial change than later, after it has been resegregated into a minority town. It becomes as much of a money issue as a safety issue.

Some racial groups a-r-e a burden to the greater taxpaying population. Increased need for social services for people who seem unable to care for themselves, increased police and fire because of greater criminality and arson, more schools that offer specialized services, the list goes on and on.

Did you ever wonder how towns change from one racial group to another? Or do you assume that the "racist" people run as soon as they see a brown or black face?

Do you know that many times organized gangs are used as "front men" to come into communities and commit crimes to frighten people to sell, thus ensuring the incoming group buys homes at bargain prices?

Have you ever thought about what happens to the fabric of a community when the entire community is run out by incoming people who have no desire to become part of the community but rather take it over and change it in its own image?

It's rarely about Color. It's ALL about Culture. Birds of a feather flock together.

And last time I checked, freedom of association is not a racist thing. If someone wants to live in a predominantly white, gay, Asian, Mexican, Polish, blue-collar or yuppie neighborhood, all power to them. Thank God we still have freedom of choice.

[Lookout Kid]

Race is a complicated issue, and Promis1 is right about some of the things he is saying. Neighborhoods in the city HAVE been ruined by poverty and inner city druggie poverty culture. Crime is indeed higher in lower-income black and Hispanic neighborhoods. Only the most wishy-washy liberal would claim that there is no real difference between a black neighborhood in poverty and a white neighborhood in the middle class other than income levels. BUT the conclusions that promis1 draws from this, which seem to include some sort of European superiority, opposition to interracial marriage, and a desire to shut out ALL blacks and Hispanics from his life, are the real problem.

[promis1]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

You are a high-minded person but you don't see the whole issue. You are chalking things up to racism that cannot be attributed to racism but rather, sadly, experience. NO ONE is saying that good citizens are limited to one or two races.

Your first statement/question "why are people posting things like it is an asset to have one minority and a burden to have another" is a good one. But it is neither arrogant nor ignorant. People have come to these conclusions through experience and objective data.

For example, do you know that Oak Park watches very carefully their percentage of racial makeup and in areas that are considered "too black" perspective black homeowners have been steered to Westchester and North Berwyn? And that such "steering" is considered l-e-g-a-l?

NOT because the O.P. Housing Authority doesn't want black people. (At least that is what they would have told you at the time.) O.P. is determined to STAY integrated and they understand that after any area reaches a certain percentage point of a-n-y race, that area is resegregated to the predominant race.

It is also an objective truth that certain minority groups are over-represented in terms of poverty, criminality, educational attainment, under or unemployment, number of people to a home,etc. Why would neighbors care about this? Because it affects property value and quality of life. Because it effects taxation. Because it can dramatically raise homeowners,business, and auto rates, to name a few. There are a whole host of factors at play. Why do you think that entire businesses and factories moved out of urban locations to the suburbs over 30 years ago? Finding sufficiently qualified employees is a major reason, as is crime and increased cost of doing business.

Areas that are seen as less desirable decline. Many of the minorites living in those areas who are hardworking and upstanding won't stay either because they want their investment in their home to grow, not stagnate. And they will openly tell you that they want to live in a town that is predominantly white because they know that towns that are majority white tend to have better school systems, less crime and are more attractive. This isn't racist or arrogant---it's a fact of life.

When neighborhoods reach the racial "tipping point" many people are no longer interested in how decent or wonderful the incoming people are. Many times, most of the people coming in ARE decent. The issue becomes a financial one. Since you've never experienced any of the examples I've outlined previously, I can tell you that you probably aren't aware that a house or business in a town that is changing is worth much more at the time of the initial change than later, after it has been resegregated into a minority town. It becomes as much of a money issue as a safety issue.

Some racial groups a-r-e a burden to the greater taxpaying population. Increased need for social services for people who seem unable to care for themselves, increased police and fire because of greater criminality and arson, more schools that offer specialized services, the list goes on and on.

Did you ever wonder how towns change from one racial group to another? Or do you assume that the "racist" people run as soon as they see a brown or black face?

Do you know that many times organized gangs are used as "front men" to come into communities and commit crimes to frighten people to sell, thus ensuring the incoming group buys homes at bargain prices?

Have you ever thought about what happens to the fabric of a community when the entire community is run out by incoming people who have no desire to become part of the community but rather take it over and change it in its own image?

It's rarely about Color. It's ALL about Culture. Birds of a feather flock together.

And last time I checked, freedom of association is not a racist thing. If someone wants to live in a predominantly white, gay, Asian, Mexican, Polish, blue-collar or yuppie neighborhood, all power to them. Thank God we still have freedom of choice.

Bravo, I could have not said it any better. You are truly my favorite on this thread and I am glad that someone said this other than me. I have been repeatedly chastised on this post ,although, my feelings are only based on my experiences- not to mention that Ive never ran and hid from any on race.

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

Some racial groups a-r-e a burden to the greater taxpaying population. Increased need for social services for people who seem unable to care for themselves, increased police and fire because of greater criminality and arson, more schools that offer specialized services, the list goes on and on..

How can you break this down by racial group when there are more white folks than minorities receiving government assistance? I think you are jumping to a conclusion here.

Some groups with increased need include unwed mothers, the disabled, the aged and people with mental infirmities. To state that such incresed need can be grouped by race is inaccurate and just makes reasonable communication and discussion impossible.