What do you think the next suburb to experience white flight will be? (Time: school, median income)

[otters21]

Originally Posted by promis1

Its an everlasting and interesting thread because the issue of white flight is happening all over the country, mainly due to spread out section 8 vouchers, the emergence of inner cities gentrifing, and housing projects being eliminated. With Obama keeping the borders open to more Hispanics, whites will have nowhere to take flight soon.

You are right.White or middle class flight in America is getting to be a very serious issue that needs to be addressed. Not all whites or middle class folks are wealthy enough ( a good percentage are not)to live in car oriented exurbs or rural areas where every family member over driving age each needs their own vehicle to get around. They need SAFE affordable neighborhoods within the city limits or in inner ring suburbs that are walkable to shops, restaurants etc and have access to decent public transit. If there were more neighborhoods like I described above,families could get by with one car and that would be much less expensive than having 2,3, or even 4 vehicles per family.

[promis1]

Originally Posted by Mister Mappy

Hmmm, didn't realize racism & homophobia are considered realism. Well, I guess they are when you're some reactionary neo-con spreading garbage. Better run before the Hispanics take over Elmwood Park. I hear central Wyoming is nice for your kind.

What liberals like you consider racism, its actually realism- the truth hurts when speaking of certain protected groups. Facts are the facts- and an influx of blacks or hispanics in any neighborhood across the U.S. causes white flight- not because of their skin color-which would be racist- but because of the crime increase and ruination of the school system-which is realism. Mister Mappy- you my friend, are a perfect example of liberal white guilt- who plays the overused race card any chance you get. The one thing that simple souls like you may not realize, is that using the race card so frequently is playing out its true meaning- people are tired of hearing that this is racist and that is racist. you sound like nothing more than a 2 year old cry baby!!!

[At1WithNature]

don't worry promis1, plenty of people think like you. and are not afraid to step on toes doing so! maybe not enough, but there are still many.

[Mister Mappy]

Originally Posted by promis1

What liberals like you consider racism, its actually realism- the truth hurts when speaking of certain protected groups. Facts are the facts- and an influx of blacks or hispanics in any neighborhood across the U.S. causes white flight- not because of their skin color-which would be racist- but because of the crime increase and ruination of the school system-which is realism. Mister Mappy- you my friend, are a perfect example of liberal white guilt- who plays the overused race card any chance you get. The one thing that simple souls like you may not realize, is that using the race card so frequently is playing out its true meaning- people are tired of hearing that this is racist and that is racist. you sound like nothing more than a 2 year old cry baby!!!

The thing is when people talk about "race-mixing ruining the white race", and "let's take a poll about the normalcy of homosexuality" like you have, it proves that you are a racist, and homophobic. Facts are facts. I don't use the race card unless someone has proven themselves one, as you have. You're trying to remake yourself as a "realist", which is a load of crap. You're a neo-con who blames everything on minorties, and "Obama ruining the country", and just being hateful to anyone who isn't white & heterosexual. Guess what, more people are tired of THAT outdated crap. I grew up in Jefferson Park with a bunch of people who thought exactly like you, back in the late 70's/early 80's. It's sad that 30 years later people still think like that.

Basically, I find your rants disgusting because I know where they truly come from, not from any "white liberal guilt" as you claim. Actually, when it comes to crime, I'm pretty conservative. (An eye for an eye, and throw away the key for the most part) That doesn't mean the minute a black or Hispanic moves in my area, I'm going to run, or worry about the neighborhood going to hell as you seem, too. I don't have a problem with conservatives, but when it's used to cover to be hateful, and judgmental, I do.

[BRU67]

I think the truth, like many things in life, lies somewhere in the middle. I think whites are often too quick to make assumptions and flee or avoid an area based on limited information and prejudice. Just because a school, for example, has a sizeable minority or even low income population does not necessarily mean your kids cannot get a good education at that school or even that its test scores are necessarily going to be low. Those fears, however, snowball and the community's demise becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

On the other hand, I don't think certain minority groups can be excused for the poor conditions of their neighborhoods and their lack of emphasis on education either. There's no reason some of Chicago's mono-cultural neighborhoods like East Garfield Park, Englewood, and Austin have to be the way they are. Poor or not, their condition is absolutely inexcusable. From little things to big things, the quality of life in these neighborhoods sucks, and you have to look to the residents as the parties responsible for that at the end of the day. You can only pass the buck so far up the chain.

Human nature being what it is, it will probably take some major outside geopolitical force -- be it a drastic overhaul in school funding, sky high gas prices, or some kind of thus-far unprecedented shift in national transportation priorities (e.g. federal funds invested in urban public transit infrastructure instead of highways that facilitate sprawl) -- that forces integration and resulting tolerance before this dilemma is ever solved

[promis1]

Originally Posted by At1WithNature

don't worry promis1, plenty of people think like you. and are not afraid to step on toes doing so! maybe not enough, but there are still many.

thanks for the compliment!

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by At1WithNature

don't worry promis1, plenty of people think like you. and are not afraid to step on toes doing so! maybe not enough, but there are still many.

ditto!

[Huckleberry3911948]

i dont see people are doing massive leaving anywhere if they gota sell, its a buyers market no? color of money is always green no?

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I think the truth, like many things in life, lies somewhere in the middle. I think whites are often too quick to make assumptions and flee or avoid an area based on limited information and prejudice.

Human nature being what it is, it will probably take some major outside geopolitical force -- be it a drastic overhaul in school funding, sky high gas prices, or some kind of thus-far unprecedented shift in national transportation priorities (e.g. federal funds invested in urban public transit infrastructure instead of highways that facilitate sprawl) -- that forces integration and resulting tolerance before this dilemma is ever solved

Thoughful post, Bru. I think, however, that most people leave because they or their family have been through it before; i.e. a neighborhood "changing". Also, freedom of association is a big thing. Many people simply don't want to live where the incoming people don't hold to the same community values (keeping up homes, etc.) and they're not about to get into disagreement over those issues.

I don't think that there is anything that can "force integration". Naperville is a prime example. Naperville became what it is today because people fled the city and less desirable suburbs to avoid the mess that some urban people have to endure daily. It grew like topsy because it was a real alternative to the people who chose it. I remember when it was rural.

I don't think people care how high prices go----they refuse to put up with crime, sub-standard schools, and filthy neighborhoods.

I find it amazing that it is the fleeing people who are expected to "tolerate" the mayhem and uncivilized behavior the criminal element brings. After 15 years in Cicero, I am frankly tired of "tolerating" filth, crime, rats, and third-world anti-social behavior. I have Wonderful neighbors but they cannot mitigate the downward trend. I sincerely wish it were otherwise.

[promis1]

Originally Posted by BRU67

I think the truth, like many things in life, lies somewhere in the middle. I think whites are often too quick to make assumptions and flee or avoid an area based on limited information and prejudice. Just because a school, for example, has a sizeable minority or even low income population does not necessarily mean your kids cannot get a good education at that school or even that its test scores are necessarily going to be low. Those fears, however, snowball and the community's demise becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

On the other hand, I don't think certain minority groups can be excused for the poor conditions of their neighborhoods and their lack of emphasis on education either. There's no reason some of Chicago's mono-cultural neighborhoods like East Garfield Park, Englewood, and Austin have to be the way they are. Poor or not, their condition is absolutely inexcusable. From little things to big things, the quality of life in these neighborhoods sucks, and you have to look to the residents as the parties responsible for that at the end of the day. You can only pass the buck so far up the chain.

Human nature being what it is, it will probably take some major outside geopolitical force -- be it a drastic overhaul in school funding, sky high gas prices, or some kind of thus-far unprecedented shift in national transportation priorities (e.g. federal funds invested in urban public transit infrastructure instead of highways that facilitate sprawl) -- that forces integration and resulting tolerance before this dilemma is ever solved

You may have missed the bigger point- that we could gain unlimited federal funds to support schools,neighborhoods, urban public transit infrastructure,etc., but until certain protected minority groups step up and take responsibility for their own actions, begin parenting at home, and not leaving their troubled children to be a burden on society-nothing will change. History will only repeat itself- and Mr. Socialist Obama will not make a difference in these troubled minority communities. Government cannot and should not help or dictate a free citizen on how to behave. For every minority out there that believes that Mr. Obama will be their meal ticket to a better life- Good Luck- Government Lies and Cheats- they are as much a rolemodel as a baseball player on steroids. And dont forget- Mr. Obama comes from the most corrupt of governments in all of the world-Chicago Politics- maybe thats why so many members of Obamas administration have cheated on their taxes. This man should truly be hailed as an American Hero- Yeah Right!