What do you think the next suburb to experience white flight will be? (Naperville: section 8, foreclosure)

[justalicious6989]

Originally Posted by Mamama Mia

I don't see that happening. Beverly, Morgan Park and some of Mt. Greenwood are extremely diverse and that hasn't seemed to effect OL.

thats great open your eyes, go down 95th, sit in front of the hospital, look on the 95th st bus, look at the mall.. jewel on 95th n pulaski.
how bout 87th and cicero? harolds chicken right across the street from dominicks hmmm..
now you tell me. where do those bus stops lead to? undesirable "hoods" as they call it
which in turn now gives people the access to oak lawn, evergreen, hometown, burbank. etc.

[justalicious6989]

Originally Posted by fusillirob1983

I'll give my assessment of the parts of Oak Lawn around 95th and Cicero since I disagree with the poster as well. I'd say anything near that intersection that is south or west is perfectly fine. Anything north east of that intersection is also likely fine. I'm not even sure how to assess the area north east of that intersection. There's the trailer park that has been around for several years, Hometown, Christ Hospital, Target, Home Depot, Jewel, and a giant park with new ballfields that was created a few years ago. Then there's the neighborhood in Oak Lawn north of Jewel, south of Hometown, west of Pulaski, and east of the previously mentioned park. I would say that small area has some of the nicer homes in Oak Lawn. If anything I would say that area of Oak Lawn has actually improved the past decade.

na. it has since i moved to hometown its gone downhill around us, they may try to improve but its not likely this will have much effect, i can say though living in hometown is alright call me racist er not but its about 98% white, and then the rest is hispanic, etc, i like it that way i
to be honest, i think one black family moved to SW Highway, not sure how that will last.
i remember moving in 1995 and we lived in an area that went black, by 63rd, california
maybe it will NOT CHANGE! LETS HOPE SINCE ITS A NICE AREA!
now i get on the 53A pulaski bus few weeks ago, completey changed since last yr NO JOKE. 95th st bus A JOKE why does it have to go to the dan ryan anyway?
same with the 87th st bus im not trying to go to 91st and commercial get that outta here, thats what terring the area down by letting people from run down area's find out they can ruin a nice area, AS I SAY "RUN DOWN" SO PEOPLE DONT THINK IM TARGETING ONE RACE.

[promis1]

Originally Posted by justalicious6989

na. it has since i moved to hometown its gone downhill around us, they may try to improve but its not likely this will have much effect, i can say though living in hometown is alright call me racist er not but its about 98% white, and then the rest is hispanic, etc, i like it that way i
to be honest, i think one black family moved to SW Highway, not sure how that will last.
i remember moving in 1995 and we lived in an area that went black, by 63rd, california
maybe it will NOT CHANGE! LETS HOPE SINCE ITS A NICE AREA!
now i get on the 53A pulaski bus few weeks ago, completey changed since last yr NO JOKE. 95th st bus A JOKE why does it have to go to the dan ryan anyway?
same with the 87th st bus im not trying to go to 91st and commercial get that outta here, thats what terring the area down by letting people from run down area's find out they can ruin a nice area, AS I SAY "RUN DOWN" SO PEOPLE DONT THINK IM TARGETING ONE RACE.

Good to see that there are still honorable people like you out there that tell like it is. I do not feel you are a racist-you, my friend, are a realist. We feel the way we do based on our life experiences- we do not prejudge- but we can make reasonable assessments based on the b.s. that we have seen.

[Manigault]

My grandfather moved to the suburbs in 1929. After WWII, my father worked two jobs to be able to build a nice three bedroom house on the lot next to his father. This was in a small neighborhood of about 1500 folks. The place even had its own grammar school. I happened to live on a dead end street since the streets in the area did not extend into the next neighborhood.

Then came 1954. The Supreme Court ruled that segregated schools were illegal so the small school had to close. They tore down the school and put a housing project in its place! The city was later the only one successfully sued for residential racial segregation, but I am getting off the topic.

At the end of my street (as there still is) was a fence which separated the white and black areas, with the white areas having restrictions against any home sales to 'negroes'. With the local grammar school closed I attended school with kids from the other side of the fence. One of my most vivid memories is that some parents from the other side had on good authority that the car thefts over there was the work of "Puerto Ricans from the city." However, I knew that a strung out Jewish kid was boosting the cars.

So, after 80 years, a middle-income neighborhood laid out separately for black folks is still an area of tidy houses and lawns, a little aged at this point. Since this is New York, the homes are going for about $350k. This is my life experience of seeing black homeowners maintain their own place on their own. While being kept separate from whites.

Check it out:

| Book Review | The Journal of American History, 89.3 | The History Cooperative

[ajolotl]

I don't think what we've seen is all b.s.. You should consider the fact that other people's life experiences might be more positive or at least nuanced on this subject, and not agreeing with your view doesn't necessarily mean that someone is being dishonest or living in pc fantasy land.

Originally Posted by promis1

Good to see that there are still honorable people like you out there that tell like it is. I do not feel you are a racist-you, my friend, are a realist. We feel the way we do based on our life experiences- we do not prejudge- but we can make reasonable assessments based on the b.s. that we have seen.

[NYrules]

Originally Posted by Opkl

Anyone have any predictions?

Flossmoor and Homewood. They are both completely surrounded now by African Americans and the younger generation white folks think you're crazy if you even say you are looking at homes in that area, so as the current white folks that live there die off, they are not being replaced by younger white folks. The youngins are all headed out to Lockport and Plainfield, that the cool place to be apparently.

[ajolotl]

I was looking at homes in flossmoor. I guess I'm crazy. It is an extremely attractive suburb, much more beautiful than Orland Park, Lockport or Plainfield. I was happy to get the African American discount, felt that the community was changing racially but that the very high-end areas would remain partly if not mostly white. That's good enough for me. I eventually decided it was too far from where I needed to go, but I don't think I was crazy for considering it.

Originally Posted by NYrules

Flossmoor and Homewood. They are both completely surrounded now by African Americans and the younger generation white folks think you're crazy if you even say you are looking at homes in that area, so as the current white folks that live there die off, they are not being replaced by younger white folks. The youngins are all headed out to Lockport and Plainfield, that the cool place to be apparently.

[fusillirob1983]

Originally Posted by justalicious6989

na. it has since i moved to hometown its gone downhill around us, they may try to improve but its not likely this will have much effect, i can say though living in hometown is alright call me racist er not but its about 98% white, and then the rest is hispanic, etc, i like it that way i
to be honest, i think one black family moved to SW Highway, not sure how that will last.
i remember moving in 1995 and we lived in an area that went black, by 63rd, california
maybe it will NOT CHANGE! LETS HOPE SINCE ITS A NICE AREA!
now i get on the 53A pulaski bus few weeks ago, completey changed since last yr NO JOKE. 95th st bus A JOKE why does it have to go to the dan ryan anyway?
same with the 87th st bus im not trying to go to 91st and commercial get that outta here, thats what terring the area down by letting people from run down area's find out they can ruin a nice area, AS I SAY "RUN DOWN" SO PEOPLE DONT THINK IM TARGETING ONE RACE.

I guess I'm confused by your definition of "run down".

Those aren't new bus routes. They've existed for all 20 years or so that I lived in Evergreen Park and probably before that. The 95th Street bus goes from the Dan Ryan to Moraine Valley CC. Should people start getting worried in Palos Hill too? When I was 13-15 years old I wasn't old enough to drive so I would take the bus to the mall. The bus was usually half-full to full, with people that live east of where I lived (just east of Pulaski) and they would go to stops in Oak Lawn and Chicago Ridge, probably to shop, go to the hospital, or get other goods or services not available to them in as safe of a manner where they may have lived. I'm just speculating on all that. What I am not speculating on is that some of the most popular stops on that bus route were Jewel at 95th at Pulaski, 95th and Cicero, Christ Hospital, and Chicago Ridge Mall.

I'll be objective as possible. There's been some demographic changes in EP and Oak Lawn the last decade. I will completely agree with that. The EPCHS school report card posted earlier in this thread proves that. The area I commented on earlier - I really don't see anything in that area that's been a downgrade. A used car dealership and Holiday Inn turned into Portillo's, Home Depot, and Target. Christ Hospital is a good hospital. A forest was turned into a nice park (whether it was right to knock down that forest is another debate). Based on your assessment of Hometown (98% white and 2% Hispanic) it sounds identical to how Hometown has been for years. Everything else around 95th and Cicero seems fine. The economic development around there doesn't seem to have changed much, although I believe they put in a Staples and Corner Bakery at the south end of the strip mall at that intersection too. I haven't scoured the side streets for drug dealers or anything though, but I'll continue to be objective and keep it real.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by fusillirob1983

I guess I'm confused by your definition of "run down".

Those aren't new bus routes. They've existed for all 20 years or so that I lived in Evergreen Park and probably before that. The 95th Street bus goes from the Dan Ryan to Moraine Valley CC. Should people start getting worried in Palos Hill too? When I was 13-15 years old I wasn't old enough to drive so I would take the bus to the mall. The bus was usually half-full to full, with people that live east of where I lived (just east of Pulaski) and they would go to stops in Oak Lawn and Chicago Ridge, probably to shop, go to the hospital, or get other goods or services not available to them in as safe of a manner where they may have lived. I'm just speculating on all that. What I am not speculating on is that some of the most popular stops on that bus route were Jewel at 95th at Pulaski, 95th and Cicero, Christ Hospital, and Chicago Ridge Mall.

I'll be objective as possible. There's been some demographic changes in EP and Oak Lawn the last decade. I will completely agree with that. The EPCHS school report card posted earlier in this thread proves that. The area I commented on earlier - I really don't see anything in that area that's been a downgrade. A used car dealership and Holiday Inn turned into Portillo's, Home Depot, and Target. Christ Hospital is a good hospital. A forest was turned into a nice park (whether it was right to knock down that forest is another debate). Based on your assessment of Hometown (98% white and 2% Hispanic) it sounds identical to how Hometown has been for years. Everything else around 95th and Cicero seems fine. The economic development around there doesn't seem to have changed much, although I believe they put in a Staples and Corner Bakery at the south end of the strip mall at that intersection too. I haven't scoured the side streets for drug dealers or anything though, but I'll continue to be objective and keep it real.

I also think Evergreen Park and Oak Lawn have a good future. The schools have managed to stay decent and there's good private schools in the area in any event. There has also been considerable economic development of late on 95th St., in both EGP and OL -- some of which you pointed out. These are not signs of a community in decline.

One thing I've noted about inner-ring suburbs which have any kind of sizeable minority population is that they are frequently bashed as declining, deteriorating, or otherwise as turning ghetto. Don't get discouraged. Some people are just going to always think that way. Just keep on speaking the truth!

[ajolotl]

Maybe, but I don't think an anecdotal counting of for-sale signs or black people at bus stops is by itself very persuasive. Does EP have an unusual number of properties for sale according to 07-08 stats (as Ashubrn did e.g. over the last decade?). Most importantly, are any young white families moving in, or are whites only being replaced by minorities?

I actually know of at least three white families that have bought in EP recently (all had grown up there). I also know quite a few families who would get out if they could. Besides purely racial issues, there is a

Originally Posted by justalicious6989

no your not, did you see all the houses for sale on california?
or even by pulaski.
eventually oak lawn will follow i suppose.
hopefully ill be gone before then