What do you think the next suburb to experience white flight will be? (Oak Lawn: crime, loan)

[ajolotl]

Maybe, but I don't think an anecdotal counting of for-sale signs or black people at bus stops is by itself very persuasive, at least not in 2009. Does EP have an unusual number of properties for sale according to 07-08 stats (as Ashubrn did e.g. over the last decade?). Most importantly, are any young white families moving in, or are whites only being replaced by minorities? Also, isn't there some limit to the number of black people available to fill up every formerly white inner suburb? To listen to some of the people on this forum any place that blacks have started to move will "turn" within five years.

I actually know of at least three white families that have bought in EP recently (all had grown up there). I also know quite a few white families who would get out if they could sell their places. I hear complaints from some about section 8 renters and crime coming down from north of 87th street. I hear others say that nothing has changed. Hard to know which is more accurate.

I think Oak Lawn has a more obvious upside for young families and don't see it changing like Ashburn has over the past decade.

Originally Posted by justalicious6989

no your not, did you see all the houses for sale on california?
or even by pulaski.
eventually oak lawn will follow i suppose.
hopefully ill be gone before then

[cdc3217]

Originally Posted by EnchantedEvergreen

I am rooting for Evergreen Park and Oak Lawn to be one of the few and the proud. I've been there a few times in the last four and a half years. Both are great, both are improving with time, and both have minorities to some degree. Someone mentioned that the northeast portion of Oak Lawn is deteriorating. When did that start to happen? Beverly (from hearsay) has a growing black population. I don't about Hispanics. Morgan Park is more black from my knowledge. I know Morgan Park High School is heavily black. I think the next suburb to jump ship and give up would be Blue Island. I know about the town's supposed improvments. However, I continue to think that the Blue Island's location near heavily minority, crime ridden areas will bring it down. Someone mentioned Blue Island as "a slightly cleaned version of Harvey."

I think white flighters already left Blue Island in the 80's and 90's. The difference is that the hispanic population came in and is very intermixed with the remaining old families. I think this has actually had a stabilizing force in BI (compared to some neighboring areas) and so there hasn't been a one-decade flight pattern like you've seen in Harvey or somewhere. Lots of the hispanic families are homeowners, small business owners, married, working, coaches, in night school, etc.

[EnchantedEvergreen]

Originally Posted by cdc3217

I think white flighters already left Blue Island in the 80's and 90's. The difference is that the hispanic population came in and is very intermixed with the remaining old families. I think this has actually had a stabilizing force in BI (compared to some neighboring areas) and so there hasn't been a one-decade flight pattern like you've seen in Harvey or somewhere. Lots of the hispanic families are homeowners, small business owners, married, working, coaches, in night school, etc.

Thanks for the feedback. That makes sense. I remember visits to my sister's bungalow near Jewel in that same time period. She moved to that area in '84 and moved out in '04. A pretty good portion of that area (if it wasn't ready) was mixed. Western Avenue, until then was all white. Again, the Hispanics arrived in the late 60s. Don't ask me why there are people that hate that .

You're right about the diversity of it all. Blue Island has a unique, one of a kind diversity of long time, white families with Hispanic families. I really love it. I do not hate it at all. I also agree that this fuels Blue Island (as you said) as a "stabilizing force."

You're also right about these Hispanic families. A large number of them are enrolled at Moraine Valley or at a higher level colleges. Many own sucessful businesses, teach, coach sports, and work in many professions.

I don't know if I can say the same thing about Summit. I bring up Summit only because of the mix of old buildings and a large Hispanic population. I have been through there on my way downtown.

[justalicious6989]

You sir are a fool, i know that for a fact go to oak lawn community highschool the children there deal weed hmm... Interesting... Who spends all there time scouring the side streets, if im i dealer im not going to make it obvious duhh who wants to get caught and by the way how did we get on the subject of drugs? And on the corner of maine in hometown they too deal coke, ass!

Originally Posted by fusillirob1983

i guess i'm confused by your definition of "run down".

Those aren't new bus routes. They've existed for all 20 years or so that i lived in evergreen park and probably before that. The 95th street bus goes from the dan ryan to moraine valley cc. Should people start getting worried in palos hill too? When i was 13-15 years old i wasn't old enough to drive so i would take the bus to the mall. The bus was usually half-full to full, with people that live east of where i lived (just east of pulaski) and they would go to stops in oak lawn and chicago ridge, probably to shop, go to the hospital, or get other goods or services not available to them in as safe of a manner where they may have lived. I'm just speculating on all that. What i am not speculating on is that some of the most popular stops on that bus route were jewel at 95th at pulaski, 95th and cicero, christ hospital, and chicago ridge mall.

I'll be objective as possible. There's been some demographic changes in ep and oak lawn the last decade. I will completely agree with that. The epchs school report card posted earlier in this thread proves that. The area i commented on earlier - i really don't see anything in that area that's been a downgrade. A used car dealership and holiday inn turned into portillo's, home depot, and target. Christ hospital is a good hospital. A forest was turned into a nice park (whether it was right to knock down that forest is another debate). Based on your assessment of hometown (98% white and 2% hispanic) it sounds identical to how hometown has been for years. Everything else around 95th and cicero seems fine. The economic development around there doesn't seem to have changed much, although i believe they put in a staples and corner bakery at the south end of the strip mall at that intersection too. I haven't scoured the side streets for drug dealers or anything though, but i'll continue to be objective and keep it real.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by justalicious6989

You sir are a fool, i know that for a fact go to oak lawn community highschool the children there deal weed hmm... Interesting... Who spends all there time scouring the side streets, if im i dealer im not going to make it obvious duhh who wants to get caught and by the way how did we get on the subject of drugs? And on the corner of maine in hometown they too deal coke, ass!

First we've got people are standing on the corner counting minorities and now we've got drug dealers hidden in the bushes Tough weekend for the inner-ring! Actually, most street dealers do want to make it somewhat obvious. Customers, you know. We sometimes forget they are businessmen. Socially destructive businessmen who should be eliminated but businessmen just the same. Problem for them in Oak Lawn is that the neighbors would call the cops, so you don't see them dealing in the streets there.

[Sub-Urban Princess]

Resident of Flossmoor here...there are people "whiteflighting" everyday. Not sure if it's attributed to the sharp increase in foreclosures statewide or extremely exorbitant tax bills running people out but it's such a shame to see people run for the hills when minorities are merely looking for the same amenities for their families as the "flighters" once sought.

I love my community and plan to reside here until it's becomes crime ridden. I must add however, that white teens have access to more money, cars, and other illicit resources which subsequently attracts less favorable people to the community causing an increase in village visits from "riff raff" and other people with Doctorates in commiting crimes. Just sayin'....

My question is...How long can you keep running before you realize that you can't ever escape living near minorities? They're going to pop up somewhere, cutting your grass, scanning your groceries or teaching your children. Perhaps "whiteflighters" should consider moving to an Eastern European country or something.

I'm sure being a red blooded white American in Poland or Russia would provide one with instant immunity from discrimination. *straight, sardonic face*

Wasila wouldn't be a horrible option either for Joe Six Packs or Hockey Moms *shrugging shoulders*

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by NYrules

Flossmoor and Homewood. They are both completely surrounded now by African Americans and the younger generation white folks think you're crazy if you even say you are looking at homes in that area, so as the current white folks that live there die off, they are not being replaced by younger white folks. The youngins are all headed out to Lockport and Plainfield, that the cool place to be apparently.

I know more than a few "young white folks" from south suburbs like Holland, Midlothian, and Homewood--and NONE of them are moving to or even considering Lockport or Plainfield. They are ignoring the southern suburbs altogether! My friend from Holland is looking at houses in La Grange and Western Springs while another friend from Midlothian is looking at houses in Oak Park. The southern suburbs are losing cache quickly, and the Orlands, Tinleys, Plainfields, etc. are losing appeal as the rest of the region deteriorates. I'm not saying that Orland Park is seeing rising crime or white flight, but just that the prices there should actually be higher, but they are discounted because of the south suburban location.

[fusillirob1983]

Originally Posted by justalicious6989

You sir are a fool, i know that for a fact go to oak lawn community highschool the children there deal weed hmm... Interesting... Who spends all there time scouring the side streets, if im i dealer im not going to make it obvious duhh who wants to get caught and by the way how did we get on the subject of drugs? And on the corner of maine in hometown they too deal coke, ass!

I won't make this personal, but I was being sarcastic. I bet there's drug dealers in Naperville high schools, St. Ignatius, Lincoln Ways, and New Trier too probably. I knew of kids who did it back when I was in high school. It really isn't that interesting.

[fusillirob1983]

I like how sometimes when my post is quoted it looks like my post and other times all the "I's" and proper nouns become lower case. I didn't know this website had such cool special effects.

[Sub-Urban Princess]

Originally Posted by fusillirob1983

I like how sometimes when my post is quoted it looks like my post and other times all the "I's" and proper nouns become lower case. I didn't know this website had such cool special effects.

Just testing your theory.

Aside from that, I feel that many are also scurrying to Frankfort but guess what....Minorities are flocking there too. Got a couple of highly educated cronies with good jobs, healthy savings and little brown kids who just moved there. For what you ask? The school district.. Oh, and they had 20% down.

Also, "cultural integration phobes" are moving to the infamous, overly exposed, saturated South Loop but guess what? Yeah...mmm hmm.

One more for the road.....Oakbrook. Ok two....Lombard but guess who else is moving there too? *scary monster roar*