Berwyn YES or NO... fill me in!!! (Chicago, Naperville: taxes, living)

[cmoscinski]

As far as housing and rentals - Oak Park market, Berwyn market, Brookfield market all have sub- markets or areas such as north (Berwyn), south (Berwyn), east (Oak Park) west. The data you pulled off the HUD website for Sec.8 states "Oak Park" but more than likely covers a specific sub-market of Oak Park - so don't confuse that it applies to the entire village/community, it does not.

Each of these communities are all evoloving into young professional, hip communities!

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by meatpuff

I would say these people in Tinley/Orland/Palos are probably not ultra-sensitive about minorities, but about crime. I agree the crime in Berwyn is of no concern for a near west suburb.

Maybe housing stock is more expensive in Orland, but the local public schools are excellent, and for so many commuting to somewhere besides Chicago, the location is fine. Given all this you can see why middle-to-upscale young families choose Orland over Berwyn in droves.

Not knocking Berwyn. Just saying it is very different from Tinley/Orland/Palos and people in the thread are picking up on that. Obviously Berwyn offers many things Orland Park cannot, as this thread has detailed, and is teriffic for another subset of people. And for young families willing to find a situation in Berwyn that works for them instead of choosing the default location.

This is an interesting post for me because I am frankly surprised that people who would end up in Tinley Park would consider Berwyn in the first place. It's like apples and oranges to me. I'm in full agreement that crime is the issue with most people, however, unless someone grew up in a city or in an area of integration, I think that most people Would be sensitive to the fact of color. And especially if the perception is that they are the minority.

There are many reasons why people with children choose Berwyn when they can live elsewhere. I can only speak for the people I know----they're all homeschoolers.

They didn't choose to homeschool because of the perception of bad schools. They were either homeschooling before they moved to town or they began after their kids were school age. Homeschooling was a conscious lifestyle choice. Berwyn has provided those families with wonderful housing and AFFORDABILITY. WHERE can a one-income family live today????

Many of the young homeschooling familes that I know grew up in more affluent communities. They WERE the day-care crowd. They grew up in daycare centers and when older, wore keys around their necks and remember waiting until mom and dad got home from work. They didn't want that for their kids. Or themselves. The women wanted to be at home for their kids and wanted to teach them, as well. Please understand that this is not a judgement on the life choices of others---I'm just explaining why Berwyn is such a popular choice in the homeschooling community.

WHERE else could they have the quality of life so close to the city? As my girlfriends tell me, they are living comfortably within their means and have extra money to take a family vacation in the summer. Not too shabby on one income. It's next to impossible to live on one income today and have a decent house that is close-in. Other homeschoolers are compelled to live w-a-y out. Berwyn is a haven for many people.

At last count, I know of 6 homeschool support groups in the area. Our kids are not alone. They have dozens of friends and could be involved in activities every day. Homeschoolers from more affluent communities come to our meetings every month. They've come from as far as Lisle and Park Ridge. For homeschoolers, why live in a "better" community hand to mouth without support ?

In addition, Berwyn has been a pioneer in the homeschooling community for over 20 years. They had one of the first homeschooling support groups in the area. And the homeschooling community isn't made up of low-income, ignorant and/or Amish type folks. There are all kinds.

As for the "middle to upscale" crowd, I know of more than a few Berwynites who are in the six figure category. Those who make higher incomes here in Berwyn/Cicero don't show it. They are self-employed. Many are business owners. Berwyn residents are a power house on Madison Street in Forest Park. At least 5 business owners on that street hail from Berwyn.

And for those who don't know me, I live in North Cicero, so I can give an opinion that's not biased.

I've been a homeschooler for 15 years and have raised my daughter in Cicero. We have homeschool friends in Berwyn, Oak Park, River Forest, Riverside, Maywood, Elmwood Park, Forest Park, Melrose Park, Berwyn, and Chicago. As a woman at home I know these towns in a way that only a mom at home can know because I'm out and about when others are gone.

Berwyn is a solid opportunity and for those who want a lifestyle off of the treadmill of long commutes and keeping up with the neighbors, it's a real winner.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by promis1

First of all, I received all of my data from 2005-2007 neighborhood survey conducted by the U.S. census bureau,which was released last month. I never stated how many rentals were in berwyn, but that there are only about 50% of its homes being single family. Which leaves the other half of its housing a target to section 8 renters. And while on the subject of section 8, how many section 8 vouchers were used in Orland park? Probably not a number that would make Berwyn look good. Oh, and while standing on 16th street, a few blocks east of Oak Park avenue, I wasnt conducting any personal survey. I was outside of an ethnic social club that I belong to talking to a few friends. I was just amazed that every single car driving past me appeared to be Hispanic.

“Look good” (whatever that means) next to Orland Park? Truthfully, I don’t really care about Orland Park. You guys are the ones reviving the old Berwyn thread in order to try to show how great Orland is. Sheesh. Ok by me though. We thank you for your continued obsession and we’re happy to debunk any prejudices that may still exist towards the community. And if you want to come here and stand around in the snow counting Hispanics, that’s fine too. A little creepy but it’s a free country.

Orland Park had 12 Section 8 vouchers being administered by HACC in 2007. Berwyn had 104 to be exact. Since most voucher holders in Cook County are minorities, and Orland Park has no minorities, that’s not surprising. But in the Orland area, Country Club Hills had 295, Tinley Park had 113, and Midlothian had 76. The top 5 are Calumet City (955), Harvey (839), Evanston (647), Chicago Heights (579) and Dolton (507). All but one is a south suburb.

Personally, I don’t think Section 8 is the horror everyone makes it out to be, so long as they’re not all concentrated in one area. But to the extent anyone should be concerned about this, it’s the south suburbs. There may not be many in Orland proper, but they are all around the area, and are flowing in that direction. Think Orland will still have 12 in 10 years? It doesn’t have the number of rental units that Berwyn and other inner-ring suburbs do but it still has over 2,000 of them, and seems to be building up at a rapid clip. I guess we’ll see.

Your comment about owner occupied properties being a “target” for Section 8 renters because they aren’t single family homes doesn’t make a lot of sense. Section 8 vouchers are for rental properties, so if a unit is owner occupied, you can’t use a Section 8 voucher for it. And if a SFH is available for rent, you can use a voucher for that. Berwyn’s renter occupied percentage has consistently been in the high 30% ballpark since the 1960 Census (at least) so I doubt its renter occupied percentage is going to drastically change. By your logic, places like Lincoln Park and Lakeview which have few SFHs but many condos are also Section 8 targets.

[meatpuff]

Originally Posted by BRU67

“Look good” (whatever that means) next to Orland Park? Truthfully, I don’t really care about Orland Park. You guys are the ones reviving the old Berwyn thread in order to try to show how great Orland is. Sheesh. Ok by me though. We thank you for your continued obsession and we’re happy to debunk any prejudices that may still exist towards the community.

As the one who revived the thread, I would like to remind you that I was responding to someone who said that Tinley/Orland/Palos folks think of Berwyn as a less-attractive place because they're ultra-sensitive to minorities. I'm convinced they're instead ultra-sensitive to violent crime and public schools. Berwyn is quantitatively very different in these regards (as far as certain violent crimes as I showed), so they've got a point if these things are the most important to them. Don't be so defensive.

Originally Posted by BRU67

By your logic, places like Lincoln Park and Lakeview which have few SFHs but many condos are also Section 8 targets.

No. And neither is Orland Park at the moment either. Rents in these three areas generally fall above the Cook County FMR Final FY 2009 Fair Market Rent Documentation System -- Summary for Cook County, Illinois
so few rental units in Orland, Lakeview, Lincoln Park can be legally occupied by Section 8 tenants unless the landlords decide to accept below-market rents.

BRU, look on the bright side. The fact that Berwyn is a nice place to live but is flying under the radar keeps the area affordable. It does make it easier for section 8's to move in, but if everyone knew about and loved Berwyn and it costed like Evanston (or Orland) to buy a SFH there, one of the best things about Berwyn would be lost.

[Hippocamp]

Meatpuff,

I moved to Berwyn a couple of years ago. I used to live in Wicker Park (rented), got priced out. I needed a house, not a condo, within a reasonable distance from the city. My price range included Berwyn, Humboldt Park, and Albany Park. All of them very diverse, and none of them crime-free. Berwyn hit the spot, heck, NORTH BERWYN hit the spot, that's where I moved. I am sensitive to crime as much as the next guy, but I chose to live in an urban area, and Berwyn is as good as any other inner ring suburb, and much cheaper. You're right about the schools, however we don't have kids yet, and once we do ... whatever we saved on the price of the house/taxes, we can use it for tuition at a private school. I'll work with my community about fixing our schools, and worse case scenarion, worry about High School in 14+ years.

If you're looking for white picket fences (and white people behind them), don't look at Berwyn. If you want a bungalow in a safer area than Rogers Park, Albany Park, and (of course) Humboldt Park -to name a few, and can't offord Oak Park , Park Ridge or Jefferson Park, then Berwyn is fine.

[cmoscinski]

As long as North Riverside Park Mall and all the retail remains in the area - Berwyn is as close to urban as you can get that is AFFORDABLE.

[bungalowdweller]

Originally Posted by cmoscinski

As long as North Riverside Park Mall and all the retail remains in the area - Berwyn is as close to urban as you can get that is AFFORDABLE.

Yes, but. . .Berwyn doesn't really "need" North Riverside Park Mall. Living in North Cicero, I drive north for shopping. To Oak Park, River Forest, and Forest Park. For malls, I go to Oakbrook or Lombard. I've long given up on North Riverside except for Best Buy and an occasional foray to Burlington Coat Factory.

North Riverside Mall has shifted their buying to suit the west-side black customers as well as the Hispanics. My husband is over 6 ft. tall and we are simply unable to buy jeans, suits, etc.

I'm a firm believer in supporting the surrounding communities, but imho North Riverside is no longer interested in the awg (average white guy) so I no longer spend money there.

Oh, yes. . .and with the high taxes in Crook County, I get a real charge buying on-line and in going to DuPage. That's the only way to punish the political Machine that is choking this state.

[Hippocamp]

Originally Posted by bungalowdweller

Yes, but. . .Berwyn doesn't really "need" North Riverside Park Mall. Living in North Cicero, I drive north for shopping. To Oak Park, River Forest, and Forest Park. For malls, I go to Oakbrook or Lombard. I've long given up on North Riverside except for Best Buy and an occasional foray to Burlington Coat Factory.

North Riverside Mall has shifted their buying to suit the west-side black customers as well as the Hispanics. My husband is over 6 ft. tall and we are simply unable to buy jeans, suits, etc.

I'm a firm believer in supporting the surrounding communities, but imho North Riverside is no longer interested in the awg (average white guy) so I no longer spend money there.

Oh, yes. . .and with the high taxes in Crook County, I get a real charge buying on-line and in going to DuPage. That's the only way to punish the political Machine that is choking this state.

I know how you feel. For those few occasions when we need big ticket items/clothing, we drive a little bit further west to Oak Brook for most of our shopping. As for Groceries, we have everything nearby, from local Mexican markets to South Berwyn Fruitmarket, Jewel, Tony's, and Whole Paycheck (Foods) and Trader Joe's in Oak Park. If we want to go and play, the city is only 15 minutes away.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by meatpuff

As the one who revived the thread, I would like to remind you that I was responding to someone who said that Tinley/Orland/Palos folks think of Berwyn as a less-attractive place because they're ultra-sensitive to minorities. I'm convinced they're instead ultra-sensitive to violent crime and public schools. Berwyn is quantitatively very different in these regards (as far as certain violent crimes as I showed), so they've got a point if these things are the most important to them. Don't be so defensive.

BRU, look on the bright side. The fact that Berwyn is a nice place to live but is flying under the radar keeps the area affordable. It does make it easier for section 8's to move in, but if everyone knew about and loved Berwyn and it costed like Evanston (or Orland) to buy a SFH there, one of the best things about Berwyn would be lost.

When people start making comments with thinly disguised racist undertones (I'm not talking about you), I get a little annoyed, sorry. What if I posted some snide remarks about seeing all white people in cars at the corner of 159th and La Grange Rd.? You’d have probably reacted negatively also!

The comment you were responding to was almost 4 months old and the thread itself hadn’t been active for awhile and was buried. So my initial reaction was as it was. I apologize if I was wrong on that.

Flying under the radar eh? A 14 page thread with over 12,000 page views and 137 replies isn’t indicative of a community that’s flying under the radar to me, LOL! I can tell you, I’ve lived in a lot of communities in my time – Elmhurst, Sycamore, Oak Park, and assorted neighborhoods in Chicago. I’ve never seen one with so much involvement and so much interest from people who do not live in the community as I have here. Not even close.

[meatpuff]

Originally Posted by BRU67

When people start making comments with thinly disguised racist undertones (I'm not talking about you), I get a little annoyed, sorry. What if I posted some snide remarks about seeing all white people in cars at the corner of 159th and La Grange Rd.? You’d have probably reacted negatively also!

...

Flying under the radar eh? A 14 page thread with over 12,000 page views and 137 replies isn’t indicative of a community that’s flying under the radar to me, LOL!

I understand your reaction better now.

I am also surprised at the interest in Berwyn on this forum. There are so many other threads besides this one, even recently! I'm outside the area now and I make no bones about it - I've never even been to Berwyn, and I don't pretend to be able to contribute anything about it except looking up public stats. But when I was in the area growing up I think the only time I ever heard about it concerned the Spindle But on City-Data everyone talks about Berwyn all the time! From what I've read on here looks pretty nice, I'd definitely check around for a place down there when/if I return.