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Old 03-02-2011, 09:00 AM
 
21,441 posts, read 34,577,630 times
Reputation: 10465
I mostly agree with allen's assessment of the current state vs what things were like in the 80's -- in more than a few ways the "shift" from low socio-economic non-minorities (that still make up a majoroty of residents) to the more affluent current residents that make up a majority of students in the "grade level centers" are better "consumers" and thus more attractive to businesses...

http://www.city-data.com/races/races...-Illinois.html

Illinois Interactive Report Card

Illinois Interactive Report Card

I don't know if other areas can use this as a model of success and I still am not sure if this mix of older non-minorities and younger minority families would be the kind of environment that a family from a rural area that was exclusively non-minority would be able to easily "fit in"...

 
Old 03-02-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,338 posts, read 4,818,107 times
Reputation: 775
How do test scores and the schools as a whole in Homewood compare to 20 years ago?
 
Old 03-02-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,338 posts, read 4,818,107 times
Reputation: 775
Other than Allen, people are not generally saying that Homewood is a better place than 20 years. If the schools are much worse, this is just a leading indicator of where the area is headed.

There is a reason why homes in the south suburbs are so cheap relative to western and northwestern burbs (north shore isn't fair comparison because of lake proximity).
 
Old 03-02-2011, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,967 posts, read 3,674,347 times
Reputation: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
Other than Allen, people are not generally saying that Homewood is a better place than 20 years. If the schools are much worse, this is just a leading indicator of where the area is headed.

There is a reason why homes in the south suburbs are so cheap relative to western and northwestern burbs (north shore isn't fair comparison because of lake proximity).
Throw in Dechee and now, amazingly, Chet. Things are heating up ...
 
Old 03-02-2011, 01:15 PM
 
829 posts, read 1,085,883 times
Reputation: 279
Default Interesting anecdotal opinion but in light of a more current academic analysis...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
Other than Allen, people are not generally saying that Homewood is a better place than 20 years. If the schools are much worse, this is just a leading indicator of where the area is headed.

There is a reason why homes in the south suburbs are so cheap relative to western and northwestern burbs (north shore isn't fair comparison because of lake proximity).

I would have to conclude otherwise.

Homewood-Flossmoor Builds on Success-
 
Old 03-02-2011, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,967 posts, read 3,674,347 times
Reputation: 665
Humboldt1: when you say "H-F has to be cheaper for a reason". Yes, it does, and there are two possibilities:
1) it is actually inferior
2) it is perceived to be inferior but really isn't

some argue that (2) is related to the changing racial composition and that, once attitudes about blacks are factored out and the evidence is scrutinized, the reality is that it hasn't gotten worse. You might disagree but you can't keep stating "it is cheaper and therefore has to be worse" as a resolution to the argument. At least, if you do, we'll go in circles forever. Put forth some data that shows what is worse about it. School test scores? Probably -- I'd like to see some data, though.
 
Old 03-02-2011, 04:11 PM
 
21,441 posts, read 34,577,630 times
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Default Perception is reality...

The sad, undeniable thing is that if I stick a pin into a wall map of the region and it happens to be south of the Eisenhower and east of 294 the odds of their being good paying jobs nearby is about 20:1 than if the pin is north and west of those roadways. Not that there are NO jobs down that a way (and believe me I know there are -- heck even the poster up thread is thinking about the area because of job relocating the the southland...)

Now I know that there are LOTS of well paid individuals that live in areas that are not near ANY good paying jobs, and if they can work from home or endure a longer commute or have good transit options the things that draw them to the area are REAL and include afford-ability and family connections and even a sort of "anti-homogenous" stretch that I can identify with. Just like there are those that self identify as "Sox fans" as a way to be "anti-Cub fans" some folks just like the south suburbs because the are so NOT the north or west burbs... I have relatives that TOTALLY fit into that category!

But these things do not change the fact that if you were to ask something like "what schools have really good AP success ratios" the perception among folks NOT as steeped in this kind of stuff as an admitted nut case like me would be listing north / west suburbs probably 20x more frequently than HF...

I do think that HF and other southland 'burbs NEED TO WORK HARDER to both increase the overall success of their schools (which I think is also true of basically every school in the state...) AS WELL AS work to get out the MESSAGE OF THEIR SUCCESS to help change perception SO THAT reality does change too.

IF employers can be attracted to the southland the options for employment will increase and that should drive values. Of course the "gentrification" foes will work to say that that is a negative, and there is a difficult dance to balance those who would tear down older homes and replace them with larger homes while still preserving some of the charm and character of older sections (even if the charm is more along the lines of "mid century modern" than the more widely appreciate real pre-WWII styles or even the faux New England / Colonial stuff that some towns are full of...). And the kind of jobs that realistically can be added to the immediate HF are vs the kind of employers that MIGHT be more interested in expanded in parts of the region that may have more of the sort of workers already "keyed in" to working downtown or in well developed 'burbs is one of those "big picture" development efforts that seem all but impossible to really tackle.

I remember when Andrew Corporation with their tech-driven focus on antennas and infrastructure equipment for the cellular carriers was a bona-fide "cutting edge" firm in the south suburbs. As I recall their expansion was really one of those things that eventually needed more "scale" to handle the global explosion of cell network and they got bought out by CommScope that probably has manufacturing in lower cost areas (or off shore) and draws its RF engineers from the more traditional Silicon Valley hot beds -- CommScope ::: About Us/Our Businesses Which is not all that different than the story of how Motorola "flopped" with its manufacturing facilities in rural Harvard IL ... Or how Lucent got sold to Alactel and shut down most of their Naperville / Lisle campus. Those things have not hurt the perception of Naperville as a good "tech" town, or made perceptions of Harvard IL as responsible for the "failure" of Motorola and I think that if some one with half a brain in State government could have but just a bit more "incentive" into a deal for somebody like Astellas they would be exactly the kind of firm that would have invested in the southland instead of building yet another pharm company site along the north arm of 294 -- Astellas Pharma US, Inc. | North American Locations



Quote:
Originally Posted by ajolotl View Post
Humboldt1: when you say "H-F has to be cheaper for a reason". Yes, it does, and there are two possibilities:
1) it is actually inferior
2) it is perceived to be inferior but really isn't

some argue that (2) is related to the changing racial composition and that, once attitudes about blacks are factored out and the evidence is scrutinized, the reality is that it hasn't gotten worse. You might disagree but you can't keep stating "it is cheaper and therefore has to be worse" as a resolution to the argument. At least, if you do, we'll go in circles forever. Put forth some data that shows what is worse about it. School test scores? Probably -- I'd like to see some data, though.
 
Old 03-02-2011, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,967 posts, read 3,674,347 times
Reputation: 665
So, did (white) people begin to leave H-F because the high-paying jobs moved elsewhere, or because the neighborhood racial demographics started to change within roughly the same economic landscape.

Your post addresses larger issues of economic development over the entire southland. The Southland could be one huge third world country and there would still be enough decent paying jobs within reach to fill one or two nice enclaves. H-F is one place south of the city where a relatively small number of higher wage earners concentrate. It doesn't matter what's going on in the western suburbs -- the issue is whether H-F has really gotten worse over the years.
 
Old 03-02-2011, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Suburbs of Chicago
1,070 posts, read 1,741,595 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen2323 View Post
Well, I grew up in homewood. Homewood is in fact a lot better now than it was 20 years ago. For one there are many times more restaurants and retail now than before. Homewood barely had any decent restaurants 10-20 years ago. And was completely underserved as far as having decent retail or being able to get a decent bite to eat within homewood. Let alone now having the much nicer downtown, actual sit down restaurants within homewood, all of the new big box retail along halsted, and I think the three starbucks coffee's that are now located within homewood really show how much old established once blue collar homewood has grown.

Secondly, the housing stock is much better in homewood now than it was 20 years ago which has attracted a higher income mix of residents to homewood than would be living there otherwise. The median household incomes in homewood now is fairly comparable to orland park. Which totally wasn't so 20 years ago. When I was growing up, the area around dolphin lake was the most expensive neighborhood in homewood. Now that area is just about average for homewood, as homewood now has some much nicer new areas. Homewood's population mix before had way more blue collar residents and contractors than middle class professionals. Homewood's population 20 years ago was more similar to what thornton's is today. Homewood's population along with flossmoor and olympia fields now have some of the most educated populations of residents in the entire chicagoland area. Way more college educated professional living there today than blue collar workers and contractors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajolotl View Post
So, did (white) people begin to leave H-F because the high-paying jobs moved elsewhere, or because the neighborhood racial demographics started to change within roughly the same economic landscape.

Your post addresses larger issues of economic development over the entire southland. The Southland could be one huge third world country and there would still be enough decent paying jobs within reach to fill one or two nice enclaves. H-F is one place south of the city where a relatively small number of higher wage earners concentrate. It doesn't matter what's going on in the western suburbs -- the issue is whether H-F has really gotten worse over the years.
Hmmmmmmmmm. Good arguments. What do you mean throw me in? I defend the southland, because I need to. I refuse to let someone throw dirt on where I live. I try to keep things on the positive note. I hate that my view isn't necessarily shared with many others.

I'll keep my "cheap house" and you can have your north and western burbs, okay? Who am I really trying to impress?
 
Old 03-02-2011, 04:54 PM
 
3,485 posts, read 4,440,491 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajolotl View Post
So, did (white) people begin to leave H-F because the high-paying jobs moved elsewhere, or because the neighborhood racial demographics started to change within roughly the same economic landscape.
For the most part, neither. Though I can't speak for every white person who left HF ... no one appointed me spokesperson.

When I left, it was a combination of rising crime & schools that were beginning to show signs of slipping. Oh, and those crazy grade centers.

Many friends & family who left a decade ago left for the same reasons. And escalating property taxes weren't helping either.

Anyone who knows any history about the area knows HF used to be on par with New Trier - it was extremely highly regarded. Somewhere along the line, Homewood-Flossmoor fell from grace. New Trier is ranked by the Sun Times as the #3 HS in the state. HF is #97. They used to be comparable - now, not so much.

Last edited by Chuckity; 03-02-2011 at 05:17 PM.. Reason: product of CPS .... i have spelling issues
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