Suburban schools in majority white towns (Chicago, Oak Park: condo, school district, college)

[ajolotl]

Sounds like you are mostly agreeing withe the OP. (2) and (3) seem consistent with "I don't want to go to school with lots of blacks". They just explain the deeper reasons behind that desire. (4) is circumstantial and could be true about any place. (1) is probably less related to race and more to crime.

I'm in the same boat, considered flossmoor but rejected because I didn't want to send my kids to a majority black school that was becoming blacker. Thus, I couldn't justify the high property taxes while sending to a private school. I'm not as worried about (1) since I'm used to the general area and don't find it that threatening (outside of the handful of really bad towns)

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Well, I'm one of these young white professionals with kids--as are many of my friends--so I'll tell you why I wouldn't move to Flossmoor. And I love Flossmoor with it's beautiful streets of shops, wonderful housing stock, and Metra Accesss... But it's not an option for my family because:

1. It's part of a larger region (south Chicagoland) that is facing a major decline. Flossmoor may be peaceful now, but many of it's neighbors are not--and things look as though they will get worse in the future. Flossmoor is becoming isolated from other nice areas--and it just doesn't offer enough on it's own to make up for this.

2. I will not put my kids in a school where the dominant culture looks down on educational achievement, the test scores are lousy, and personal safety is an issue. H-F may not quite be there yet, but it is on the brink.

3. H-F High School seems to be on a fast downward track. The school is changing so rapidly now that it will be in terrible shape by the time my young daughters are high school age.

4. The southern burbs are inconvenient for me. The distances from family and friends are just too great.

Your post reflects how many feel and I can't argue with your logic. But in between the lines on point #1 is how hard it will be to find a stable area. If the south Chicago region declines, the areas that people are fleeing to are eventually going to go also. The people who hold the value system in #2 will at some point start to depopulate the areas that are in decline and move out to where you are, and the cycle will start anew. To flee proper, I recommend the north shore!

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by At1WithNature

I agree with you, I am just stating what today's universities are teaching our leaders of tomorrow. If it is geared towards white males then why do asian males and asian females score the highest?

A bunch of liberal mumbo jumbo if you ask me. It's all well-intentioned, of course, but you know what they say. "The road to hell...."

[ajolotl]

Let's get one thing straight -- there is an ocean between having a high IQ and passing the state high school competency exam. To run a 4 minute mile you have to have some genetic gifts. If you can't run one in 8 minutes, though, you're lazy and horribly out of shape. The competency test is an 8 minute mile. Not passing reflects a lack of discipline and focus on education. It has little to do with genetics.

[Lookout Kid]

ajolotl and BRU67, it doesn't take much for a person like me to rule out the southern suburbs since there is really no reason for me to move from the North Side all the way down there. I do have family ties to the region (Hammond, Gary, Calumet City), but they all left decades ago or died. So there would really have to be some major draw to get me to move to that part of the metro area. Affordability may be the ONLY draw at this point, since the western and northern suburbs just have more to offer in terms of schools and ammenities. And this is another issue facing Flossmoor... It's not just white flight, but the inability to attract new white families. I don't know if I would just pick up stakes and ditch if I had grown up there or had long ties to the community, but it doesn't take much for me to just cross it off the list when there are better options elsewhere.

Stability is a theme of my ealier numbered thread that seemed to be missed in this discussion. Oak Park is a front runner for me right now, so living and sharing a school system with blacks is not the primary issue for me. But if the Oak Park schools seemed like there were going to decline further or become 90% black in the future due to white flight, I'd have to reconsider that option. As it is now, many elementary schools in Oak Park are 30-40% black, and I'm alright with that because they seem to be stable. You don't hear about a lot of people fleeing the Oak Park schools.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by Gioobag

That's outrageous!!!

She's a total product of affirmative action, and she occupied spots at Ivy League schools that belonged to someone else more smart, with more merit and with more accomplishment.

Perhaps someone who was a legacy? Imagine Michelle taking away a spot that some long-suffering blueblood was entitled to!

[scotty40]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Well, I'm one of these young white professionals with kids--as are many of my friends--so I'll tell you why I wouldn't move to Flossmoor. And I love Flossmoor with it's beautiful streets of shops, wonderful housing stock, and Metra Accesss... But it's not an option for my family because:

1. It's part of a larger region (south Chicagoland) that is facing a major decline. Flossmoor may be peaceful now, but many of it's neighbors are not--and things look as though they will get worse in the future. Flossmoor is becoming isolated from other nice areas--and it just doesn't offer enough on it's own to make up for this.

2. I will not put my kids in a school where the dominant culture looks down on educational achievement, the test scores are lousy, and personal safety is an issue. H-F may not quite be there yet, but it is on the brink.

3. H-F High School seems to be on a fast downward track. The school is changing so rapidly now that it will be in terrible shape by the time my young daughters are high school age.

4. The southern burbs are inconvenient for me. The distances from family and friends are just too great.

I've got to wonder where you are getting your stats from... In 2002- the School was 59.8% white and scored a 67% PSAE Meets or exceeds standards. In 2008- the school was 35.1% white and scored a 66% Meets or exceeds standards. 2007 was even better at 68% meets or exceeds standards. Doesn't sound like the "dominant culture" is bringing in the lousy test scores you are referring to. I'd like to mention that 66% Meets or exceeds puts HF in the top 25% of school districts in Chicago.
You've got a wide variety of kids coming into HF- its boundaries include a large area in the Heights and Glenwood. I challenge someone to find a majority-minority non-magnet high school that scores as high as HF.
Look- I realize that both Homewood and Flossmoor have issues that need to be dealt with to attract young, white families back. But, as a young white family who moved here not too long ago (and believe it or not-despite this message board- white people do move to both towns) I take issue with the general characterization of HF on this message board. If you are going to rip the high school- have some facts to back it up.

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by Gioobag

That's outrageous!!!

She's a total product of affirmative action, and she occupied spots at Ivy League schools that belonged to someone else more smart, with more merit and with more accomplishment.

Most schools, and the Ivies in particular, have never hid the fact that intelligence is not their sole (or even most important) criterion for admission, racial issues aside. Add to that if you wish the obvious fact that intelligence is impossible to quantify .. Michelle seems damn smart to me, regardless of her SAT score or high school grades. Putting the two together I fail to see the outrageousness.

[ajolotl]

I think you are probably not a good test case since you likely wouldn't have moved there in its heyday. I'm thinking more about people who would have been inclined to move there a decade or so ago but now cross it off the list. U of C professors are a good example.

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

ajolotl and BRU67, it doesn't take much for a person like me to rule out the southern suburbs since there is really no reason for me to move from the North Side all the way down there. I do have family ties to the region (Hammond, Gary, Calumet City), but they all left decades ago or died. So there would really have to be some major draw to get me to move to that part of the metro area. Affordability may be the ONLY draw at this point, since the western and northern suburbs just have more to offer in terms of schools and ammenities. And this is another issue facing Flossmoor... It's not just white flight, but the inability to attract new white families. I don't know if I would just pick up stakes and ditch if I had grown up there or had long ties to the community, but it doesn't take much for me to just cross it off the list when there are better options elsewhere.

Stability is the theme of my ealier numbered thread. Oak Park is a front runner for me right now, so living and sharing a school system with blacks is not the primary issue for me. But if the Oak Park schools seemed like there were going to decline further and become 90% black in the future due to white flight, I'd have to reconsider that option. As it is now, many elementary schools in Oak Park are 30-40% black, and I'm alright with that because they seem to be stable. You don't hear about a lot of people fleeing the Oak Park schools.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

If you can't run one in 8 minutes, though, you're lazy and horribly out of shape.

Or you have bad knees like me. "Bad knees" coule be a metaphor for coming from a broken home with no positive role models, if you ask me. Throw in the influence of gangs and a lack of employment opportunities, and you're running that mile with a broken leg.