When/why did Elgin officially become a 3rd world country? (Chicago: city hall, homes)

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by deechee

Let's return to the ORIGINAL TOPIC also. We don't want an off topic thread.

Well, the original topic is "When/why did Elgin officially become a 3rd world country?" LOL!! I never thought I'd say this but this is one original topic I think we'd actually want to get away from, and onto a more productive line of discussion, like how to fix the problems created by current immigration patterns.

Most in this thread, like most in the country, seem bent on trying to apply what worked in 1900 to the present. It would be nice to hear other possible approaches.

[Chicagoland60426]

Originally Posted by ncc

Well, here's what happened when my grandparents came to the U.S. First, they waited in line like civilized people, taught their kids to have respect for other people and property, talked about how lucky and appreciative they are to be in America (and to be American) that actually offers opportunities, and what a great country she is, had 4 kids in a 15year span ( not 1 kid per year for 10yrs!), If you're poor, why would you have so many kids?, unless you live on a farm. Be Responsible!. Lastly, they never spoke to their kids in their native language, they said, "learn english"! Oh yeah, ask any older person if they know what grafitti is? When I asked my grandma, she had no idea.. And a lot of these illegals who work, send their money back to their native country instead of stimulating the U.S economy. Some of the towns in Mexico, solely depend on these funds sent from the U.S.

It's ridiculous how illegals come here, make money only to send it back, while bringing their third world culture/mentality here.. In the U.S, our system is based on the rule of law, that's our culture. In third world countries these laws don't apply or, there rarely enforced.


Lastly, guess what's the number one SS# illegals use every year??? 000-00-0000 yep, it's a joke. Even if they pay some taxes, they still deduct all their kids as dependents...

I have no problem with immigrants, as long as they wait their turn, become legal, respect our laws, and be responsible!




This comment is really idiotic!!! What do you consider "sophisticated"?? Debating what gossip magazine is accurate, or what reality show is mentally stimulating?? I know far more classier lower payed (or working class) people than well-to-do people..

So in result of your grandmother, you probably don't know the language at all from the country your grandmother immigrated from. That is call total assimilation and losing a culture all together at the same time. I'm just assuming because your grandmother didn't allow the kids to speak native tongue. I don't quite understand why many older generation immigrants didn't past down their cultural language. I understand they didn't speak it in public or wanted their children to speak it because of bigotry, but the comfort of home is different. What country is your grandmother from?

Sophisticated restaurants like a very nice sit down Mexican restuarant or something yuppie people would enjoy.

[Chicagoland60426]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

The OP asked "what is happening to Elgin?" And at some point he said: "This is a suburb, not an inner city slum!"

Well, Elgin really isn't a suburb. It, along with Joliet, Aurora, and Waukegan have been significant, yet small industrial cities for a long time. They didn't begining as suburbs they one would think. They manufactured a variety of products. Elgin was known for its watches, and I believe the headquarters for a watch company might still be there.

But anyways, all places that start as industrial towns are often doomed for some amount of "deterioration" since they were never "pretty" places to begin with. Homes were small, working class frame houses, etc. and as soon as the early northern European descended people saved enough money to buy a bigger house on a sprawling lot with less crowded schools, thats what they did. Consequently the people who moved next were working class and poor of another group.

The reason why Elgins published demographics may not reflect what you see in downtown Elgin, is because you have a higher percentage of white people on the edge or outskirts of Elgin. Close to the Randall Rd. corridor.

One thing I don't understand - if a church already exists that was built by a previous ethnic group, why would you build a whole new one. As much as sounds impressive and noble to build a church from scratch, why would you expect them and put them down or not building a new one?

I agree on immigration reform no doubt. But I have questions about some of the posters. I also think that people are underestimating how much the Irish and Italians were hated and discriminated against, and how much they in many ways paralleled Hispanics today.

First off, many of the people who immigrate here from Mexico are of the lower incomes, generally Mestizos and some indigenous, as opposed the pure Spanish descended people who still control the wealth and power. In the same way Italians primarily came from Sicily/southern Italy (the poorer part of Italy then as now).

Likewise both brought in a criminal element that was involved with the trafficking of illegal substances (it was bootlegging back then). Today, we look at the early botlegging Italian mafia of Al Capone and Jonnio Torrio and it seems so long ago, that we can't help but to say "well, it was different back then. There were also youth gangs among the Italians and Irish, with bar room brawls and drinking.

In fact, a lot evidence suggests that prohibition was started as a nativist backlash against the Irish and Italians, etc. from the white protestants who saw their lifestyle as low class.
Italians and Irish were not also not integrated soon after they came. In fact there are some near suburbs that generations later still are dominated by Italians (Elmwood Park) and Irish (Evergreen Park). Many of the early immigrants sold hot dogs on Maxwell Street not too different than Hispanics selling tacos.

Who ever mentioned the law of 1924 was right. There basically were no immigration laws before then. Anyone could come. Of course in the 1800s, the U.S. was a wide open and could easily accomodate people.

I agree with immigration reform. But its important to truly understand history, and not see it through "rose colored glasses"

So in your opinion Joliet, Aurora, and Elgin are independent cities that happen to be in the boundaries of very large metro dominated by the center city(Chicago)? Kind of like how Long Beach, CA is a fairly populated city close to main city of LA or what Oakland is to San Francisco. I never heard anybody call LBC or Oakland suburbs.

Funny that Gary and Hammond is closer to Chicago than Elgin, but Gary is never mention as a suburb.

[IRV007]

I've lived in Elgin my whole adult life....40+ years. Raised in (GASP) Carpentersville.

Elgin is a multi-cultural,multi-economical and multi-racial city. So we have all the pluses and minuses of a MC city. Our gangs, our schools, our hard working citizens and our derelicts, our church goers and our drunks / drug users, our homeless and our very wealthy....Yep, they come in about any variety and speaking just about any language you can name.

And old-timers around here don't think of this as a suburb. Sure, some make the commute. But for every one who does, there's probably a dozen who haven't been in Chicago in ten years.

One thing that does bother some are the large number of chronically homeless here. On what once on the outskirts of town was founded the "Northern Illinois Asylum for the Mentally Ill". As the drug treatment of mental illness got popular people who were institutionalized were given drugs and set off on there own. Seems like after all these decades we still have more than our share of these lost souls. But as odd as these folks might appear I've never felt threatned...just sad we can't do more for the sick.

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426

So in your opinion Joliet, Aurora, and Elgin are independent cities that happen to be in the boundaries of very large metro dominated by the center city(Chicago)? Kind of like how Long Beach, CA is a fairly populated city close to main city of LA or what Oakland is to San Francisco. I never heard anybody call LBC or Oakland suburbs.

Funny that Gary and Hammond is closer to Chicago than Elgin, but Gary is never mention as a suburb.

Yes, thats basically what I'm saying. Elgin, Aurora, and Joliet are "sattelite cities" the way Oakland, Long Beach, and Gary are.

[ncc]

Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426

So in result of your grandmother, you probably don't know the language at all from the country your grandmother immigrated from. That is call total assimilation and losing a culture all together at the same time. I'm just assuming because your grandmother didn't allow the kids to speak native tongue. I don't quite understand why many older generation immigrants didn't past down their cultural language. I understand they didn't speak it in public or wanted their children to speak it because of bigotry, but the comfort of home is different. What country is your grandmother from?

My Grandparents are from Italy and Sicily. They spoke to each other and their parents in Italian/Sicilian. I speak a fraction of Italian, (I took Italian classes when I was younger, however, I speak Spanish. The Italian language is the only thing that wasn't passed down in my family. Other than that, I was brought up in a Italian-American (since we're in America) environment (house, neighborhood, friends, etc) I think it's great if people are billigual or more, but in the U.S, English should be strictly enforced publicly (all signs, every public school, etc)

Also, every Immigrant who wants to come here legally should pass a English and Constitution test. Kids in 8th grade have to pass one in order to graduate, so why shouldn't someone who wants to become an American.

Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426

Sophisticated restaurants like a very nice sit down Mexican restuarant or something yuppie people would enjoy.

Again, I don't understand your "sophisticated" comment. What's makes a restaurant sophisticated?? My friend's mother is from Mexico and owns a Mexican restaurant; she's as classy as they come. First and foremost, I think that people like good food, not if some restaurant is "yuppie", and I'm speaking on behalf of true Chicago people. That "sophisticated" and "yuppie" ideology would fit perfect in the shallow LA scene, or the upper east side of Manhattan!

[cdc3217]

One challenge that I know a lot of communities face as the community ethnicity changes is that the sense of style changes. Colors that are considered tasteful by one group will not always be as appealing to the upcoming group. Hispanic business owners want to attract the clientele they know - and so naturally they want certain colors and styles that will identify them. I know that good revitalization groups work really hard to take the distinctive styles and blend them with existing achitecture and business codes, so that its a win-win. But that takes a lot of diplomacy and face to face interaction to come to a meeting of the minds. In short, the city has to pay attention, and not let the invisible hand of local small business resort to the lowest common denominator.

[Chicagoland60426]

Originally Posted by ncc

My Grandparents are from Italy and Sicily. They spoke to each other and their parents in Italian/Sicilian. I speak a fraction of Italian, (I took Italian classes when I was younger, however, I speak Spanish. The Italian language is the only thing that wasn't passed down in my family. Other than that, I was brought up in a Italian-American (since we're in America) environment (house, neighborhood, friends, etc) I think it's great if people are billigual or more, but in the U.S, English should be strictly enforced publicly (all signs, every public school, etc)

Also, every Immigrant who wants to come here legally should pass a English and Constitution test. Kids in 8th grade have to pass one in order to graduate, so why shouldn't someone who wants to become an American.




Again, I don't understand your "sophisticated" comment. What's makes a restaurant sophisticated?? My friend's mother is from Mexico and owns a Mexican restaurant; she's as classy as they come. First and foremost, I think that people like good food, not if some restaurant is "yuppie", and I'm speaking on behalf of true Chicago people. That "sophisticated" and "yuppie" ideology would fit perfect in the shallow LA scene, or the upper east side of Manhattan!

What if you are in a ethnic district such as Chinatown where you usually find Chinese language newspapers, stores, and even a Walgreens with Chinese subtitles above or below the English version. So you think areas like Chinatown should not have Chinese subtitles?


Never mind my sophisticated comment. I meant restaurants that attract a high number of non blue collared or working class people.

[knitgirl]

It took 5 pages before I found a post from someone who actually LIVES in Elgin. I agree with IRV about most of what he said. Elgin is uncomfortable for a lot of people who grew up in lily white suburbs. I am a white woman who's lived close to downtown Elgin for 12 years. Before that I lived in Ravenswood. My next door neighbors and the people behind me are both Latino families and they are wonderful people who keep their homes and yards immaculate. They propbably wonder what's going on with the gringas next door who sometimes let the grass get too long. They have fixed our fence because it was the neighborly thing to do. The one next door takes his big snow blower down the whole block in winter. Even with the current economy and foreclosures high, I see a lot of home that are occupied by Hispanics who are trying to live the American Dream and are making improvements to their property, i.e. nice wrought iron fences, pretty landscaping, etc. I have never felt unsafe here, and I used to work in downtown Elgin and it would be dark when I left work in winter. I think a lot of downtowns have empty stores these days. Elgin has actually added several restaurants to downtown over the years: The Elgin Pub, Magdalena's, Douglas Street sports bar, Mad Maggies (has live music, too.)There's also the Martini Room and a new bar that I've seen advertised but can't remember the name of, not a dive kind of place. There's a new dentist with a very fancy office on Douglas. We've got a beautiful library that is well used by the entire community. The 4th of July parade includes the whole spectrum, all waving the American flag. Festival Park on the river has a great interactive fountain that kids love. I am really happy to live in Elgin.

[ncc]

Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426

What if you are in a ethnic district such as Chinatown where you usually find Chinese language newspapers, stores, and even a Walgreens with Chinese subtitles above or below the English version. So you think areas like Chinatown should not have Chinese subtitles?


Never mind my sophisticated comment. I meant restaurants that attract a high number of non blue collared or working class people.

I'm talking about public schools, government controlled entities, whether federal or state. I read on some other post that a school had signs in spanish. Private businesses however, could do what they want. And byi, i love chinatown, especially Evergreen on Wentworth..