Chicago gun ban struck down! (Washington, Columbia: insurance, credit, buyers)

[moving123456]

The Chicago gun ban was working so well too.... only 52 people were shot in Chicago last weekend.

Chicago Violence: At Least 52 Shot, Seven Dead Over The Weekend (UPDATED)

[brien51]

Originally Posted by hank0604

MOD CUT

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc--After this, therefore because of this.

Just because one thing happens after another, it doesn't mean that the first event caused the second.

For example, you could look at New Orleans. Without taking time to look up facts, I would imagine that stats from 2005 would look pretty odd on paper. I'm sure that all kinds of things went down--crime, teenage pregnancy, high school dropouts, etc. But this wasn't caused by any policy change, it was Hurricane Katrina moving 60% of the people out of the city.

We will not be able to get any real data from D.C. for at least 10 years, so that we have a significant time period to measure the data from.

I have a hard time believing that there are too many criminals out there afraid of committing a crime because the homeowner might be armed. I grew up in Louisiana, where almost every home had a gun (I got my first, a .410 shotgun, when I was 7), and there were still plenty of robberies, assaults, batteries, etc. I've even had a buddy who was carrying and got mugged, resulting in a very beautiful S&W being taken from him.

Crime is a social issue, and will not be caused by removing or providing guns. As Lookout Kid has said, guns don't really sway crime one way or another.

Okay, I'm starting to ramble. In the end, I'm supportive of the SC's decision, because I do believe that it is a fundamental right of Americans to own guns. But let's not deceive ourselves into thinking that we want guns for some higher purpose--we just like guns in this country. We were born of the gun, they are as much a part of our culture as baseball.

I respect your side of the argument, but even the Police Chief in a TV interview stated the DC police concentrated on violent crimes, committted with guns, to reduce the murder rate. Therefore, if they concentrated their efforts on this side of the problem, they had to reduce their efforts on lesser violent crime, ie, crimes committed without firearms. Shifting the forces focus seems to make a difference here, as the Police Chief has pointed out. Now you can make the argument the lifing of the gun ban has noting to do with this, and may show the opposite of what we are arguing here, but that would be to ignore that most murders are commmitted with handguns, as I have shown in this thread.

I am also in agreement that 2 years is not enough of a study, yet all of the indications point to the lifting of the "gun ban" has contributed to the overall reduction of the murder rate; how much will remain to be seen over the next few years.

[jwaiter]

Originally Posted by moving123456

The Chicago gun ban was working so well too.... only 52 people were shot in Chicago last weekend.

Chicago Violence: At Least 52 Shot, Seven Dead Over The Weekend (UPDATED)

Yes, lets put MORE guns on the streets to see LESS people get shot!

[brien51]

Originally Posted by jwaiter

Yes, lets put MORE guns on the streets to see LESS people get shot!

Criminals will get guns and break all the gun laws you can fashion in a lifetime.

Only law abiding citizens will obey gun bans until they get fed up and then will become just like the criminals; they won't give two shakes about any government law, they will do what they need to do to protect themselves.

Did you bother to read the link I provided about how the Swiss have guns in almost every household and their rate of crime with guns is near ZERO?


Guns, Crime, and the Swiss - by Stephen P. Halbrook

[SIZE=-1]The Swiss Federal Police Office reports that, in 1997, there were 87 intentional homicides and 102 attempted homicides in the entire country. Some 91 of these 189 murders and attempts involved firearms (the statistics do not distinguish firearm use in consummated murders from attempts). With its population of seven million (which includes 1.2 million foreigners), Switzerland had a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. There were 2,498 robberies (and attempted robberies), of which 546 involved firearms, giving a robbery rate of 36 per 100,000. Almost half of these criminal acts were committed by non-resident foreigners, which is why one hears reference in casual talk to "criminal tourists."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Sometimes, the data sounds too good to be true. In 1993, not a single armed robbery was reported in Geneva.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]In a word, Switzerland, which is awash in guns, has substantially lower murder and robbery rates than England, where most guns are banned.[/SIZE]


YouTube - The Fixx - Saved By Zero

[jwaiter]

Originally Posted by brien51

Did you bother to read the link I provided about how the Swiss have guns in almost every household and their rate of crime with guns is near ZERO?

They're SWISS!

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by jwaiter

Yes, lets put MORE guns on the streets to see LESS people get shot!

The ban never stopped criminals from getting guns (someone intent on murder won't obey a gun law), at least now the innocent will have the means to protect themselves from the thugs.

[hank0604]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

The ban never stopped criminals from getting guns (someone intent on murder won't obey a gun law), at least now the innocent will have the means to protect themselves from the thugs.

Can we PLEASE stop acting like the citizens of Chicago live like prisoners in their own homes, afraid to step outside. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. WE DO NOT NEED GUNS TO PROTECT OURSELVES.

As I've said earlier in this thread (or maybe the other one, I forget), it's good that the ban was overturned. This is a victory for personal rights. But I'm tired of seeing all these people who have probably never set foot in Chicago coming here to stir up trouble. Chicago's murder rate looks bad, but these are not home invasions or street robberies. They are armed criminals killing other armed criminals. We don't need to protect ourselves from that.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by hank0604

...WE DO NOT NEED GUNS TO PROTECT OURSELVES...

Speak for yourself.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by hank0604

Can we PLEASE stop acting like the citizens of Chicago live like prisoners in their own homes, afraid to step outside. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. WE DO NOT NEED GUNS TO PROTECT OURSELVES.

As I've said earlier in this thread (or maybe the other one, I forget), it's good that the ban was overturned. This is a victory for personal rights. But I'm tired of seeing all these people who have probably never set foot in Chicago coming here to stir up trouble. Chicago's murder rate looks bad, but these are not home invasions or street robberies. They are armed criminals killing other armed criminals. We don't need to protect ourselves from that.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by hank0604

Can we PLEASE stop acting like the citizens of Chicago live like prisoners in their own homes, afraid to step outside...

Many are. Try living in Austin or Englewood for example.