Affordable city neighborhoods with good schools? (Chicago, Oak Park: magnet school, university, camps)

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

I have no particular stake in this game (no reason to promote evanston or Oak park) but overall I think it can be helpful to know that Chicago has some unique suburbs that themselves are very city-like. Couldn't hurt, especially when person says "I would rather live in the city", not "I absoulely have to".

The reason I suggested Oak Park, was that a prior post suggested the extreme northwest side of the city. If you're going to look at these neighborhoods, you should probably look at suburban towns which are even closer, and have better transit access to the lakefront, unless you have a specific reason to live within the city limits (ie work for the city).

[noplacelike]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

Evanston Twp. H.S. #46 high school in the state
Oak Park/River Forest #38 high school in the state

There are five CPS High Schools that are ranked higher than both.

Top 100 high schools in Illinois :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Education

Nine of the top 25 elementary schools in the state are in Chicago.

One in Evanston is #7

I cannot find one Oak Park elementary school in the top 100.

Top 100 elementary schools in Illinois :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Education

No surprise there. Thanks for bringing back the original point. I know there are a lot of folks raising kids in the city that are neither rich nor poor. There have to be a few decent schools there, one would think.

[noplacelike]

Originally Posted by BRU67

No the diversity isn’t magical, and Oak Park is probably a lot less diverse than people think, at least in terms of economics. Truth be told, humble Berwyn, not thought of by most in the diversity discussion, is a lot more economically and racially diverse than Oak Park is, and probably has been for some time. But Oakparkevanston will always be thought of first and foremost whenever you mention the terms “diversity” and “urban suburbs” around here. No amount of technical argument is going to change this, so I seldom mention it. Credit successful branding of that image over a long period of time, which probably spans back 40 years if not longer. Works for me though, and helps keep OP (and the surrounding area) viable and a destination.

Berwyn is the most diverse of the three, ethnically and socio-economically. Don't know how schools are.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by noplacelike

No surprise there. Thanks for bringing back the original point. I know there are a lot of folks raising kids in the city that are neither rich nor poor. There have to be a few decent schools there, one would think.

There are nearly 3 million people living in Chicago, a disproportionate number of whom are young.

Ridiculous levels of complexity exist to get ones children into one of the FEW decent schools.

This is unacceptable to many people, especially those that are "neither rich nor poor" and they "vote with their feet" by moving to one of the MANY communities outside the City Limits, where nearly 10 million people have FAR easier access to schools that in the main are much more likely to provide a safe and effective learning environment...

It is no secret that the communities that are more expensive than all but the highest end of City of Chicago neighbors have schools that are FAR superior to all but the exclusively selective admission schools within CPS. It is less well known that MOST communities that are no more expensive than the average Chicago neighborhood also are likely to make it far easier to get a good education for ones children. This is the number one reason that there has been an explosion of middle income families with children, both of national majority race as well as minority groups, living in SUBURBAN areas and continuing the decades long exodus from Chicago...

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by chet everett

There are nearly 3 million people living in Chicago, a disproportionate number of whom are young.

Ridiculous levels of complexity exist to get ones children into one of the FEW decent schools.

It's really not all that complicated to fill out a bunch of school applications and drop them off - and CPS holds workshops every year explaining everything in detail.

What is obviously frustrating is when your options are extremely impractical as far as location goes.

But I went to private schools, and kids just walked/biked/took the CTA, it really wasn't that big of a deal.

[noplacelike]

Originally Posted by chet everett

There are nearly 3 million people living in Chicago, a disproportionate number of whom are young.

Ridiculous levels of complexity exist to get ones children into one of the FEW decent schools.

This is unacceptable to many people, especially those that are "neither rich nor poor" and they "vote with their feet" by moving to one of the MANY communities outside the City Limits, where nearly 10 million people have FAR easier access to schools that in the main are much more likely to provide a safe and effective learning environment...

It is no secret that the communities that are more expensive than all but the highest end of City of Chicago neighbors have schools that are FAR superior to all but the exclusively selective admission schools within CPS. It is less well known that MOST communities that are no more expensive than the average Chicago neighborhood also are likely to make it far easier to get a good education for ones children. This is the number one reason that there has been an explosion of middle income families with children, both of national majority race as well as minority groups, living in SUBURBAN areas and continuing the decades long exodus from Chicago...

The exodus from the suburbs to the city also has long since begun, in case you hadn't noticed. Living in the suburbs is also unacceptable to many people as well, and they do not want their children to be raised suburbanites. They regard this as a cultural disadvantage. For those committed to giving their children the cultural advantages of an urban upbringing, they will do the paperwork or come up with the Catholic school tuition. As more people such as this poster and other city-dwellers stick to their guns, as it were, in the city, things may eventually improve. I can remember, for example, when there were no magnet schools. Lane Tech was about the only public school that attracted any mention.

To each his own.

[chet everett]

I too have friends that went to some of the better public or private schools inside Chicago and without exception they DO think it was a big deal and it has gotten WORSE. A decade or so ago there were some pretty good options for public high schools that were not too hard to get to from the south side, with the continued drain of middle income folks from many of those neighborhoods and the pull of the highly proficient students to more northerly regions those options have decreased. Meanwhile safety has gone from an occasional hassle and what was once a rare bystander getting injured into a nearly nonstop pressure to affiliate with gangs and a huge increase in collateral damage...

South side private schools are in a dire situation, and the radius that parents are willing to allow their children to travel has basically fallen to an untenable level. When you dare not let your kids cross more than a few blocks it basically makes it impossible for the private schools that formerly had ranges of the entire city to draw on to exist...

Formerly healthy schools are frantically reaching out to alums to shore up their cash and expanding recruiting when they used to have waiting lists.

Do you read the papers or listen to the radio shows? Even folks that have lived in Chicago for generations, of all races, are fearful that schools that they loved are not going to make it...

[ajolotl]

Most people I know in this situation (which is MANY) lived in the city prior to having kids, spent years learning about the options after having their first child, and either fled to Oak Park without trying or played their options. Those that played their options usually came up with something acceptable, but it wasn't without tremendous stress and inconvenience in many cases. I agree with Noplace that there are a lot of young families committed to the city. That commitment is definitely seriously put to the test, though, by the school jockeying. This is especially true for multi-child families and beyond elementary school. For people who can spend 20K/year/child there isn't much of an issue -- they end up getting into one of the four or five elite schools.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by noplacelike

The exodus from the suburbs to the city also has long since begun, in case you hadn't noticed. Living in the suburbs is also unacceptable to many people as well, and they do not want their children to be raised suburbanites. They regard this as a cultural disadvantage. For those committed to giving their children the cultural advantages of an urban upbringing, they will do the paperwork or come up with the Catholic school tuition. As more people such as this poster and other city-dwellers stick to their guns, as it were, in the city, things may eventually improve. I can remember, for example, when there were no magnet schools. Lane Tech was about the only public school that attracted any mention.

To each his own.

While I think middle and upper middle parents are generally too obsessive over school scores, Chicago's schools have to get better before there can be any hope of a massive back to the city movement.

Correcting our presently unconstitutional educational system could be a good starting point. Article X, Sec. 1 of the Illinois Constitution holds that the "State shall provide for an efficient system of high quality public educational institutions and services."

The Section goes on to to say that the "State has the primary responsibility for financing the system of public education."

Of course, we ignore this in practice. And as long as people can move to far out suburbs for better funded (and better managed) schools, you'll have a hard time attracting and keeping families in the City proper.

As you point out, there has been a movement back to the City despite this, but for it to really gain traction, education will have to be addressed in a major way.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by BRU67

While I think middle and upper middle parents are generally too obsessive over school scores, Chicago's schools have to get better before there can be any hope of a massive back to the city movement.

I do agree with you on the state funding issue, 100%.

But not on the quote above - schools improve on an individual basis, when concerned parents actually get involved. We toured Audubon recently just out of curiosity, and were amazed how there were parents and grandparents volunteering in pretty much every single classroom.

It takes a long period of middle class people moving into a neighborhood to get that kind of change, maybe 15 years, give or take a little. And the current patten of people flocking to a neighborhood based on a school isn't sustainable - Audubon, Bell, etc. have size limitations. At some point it takes a group of parents banding together to make a difference.