Why is Chicago losing population? (Phoenix, Humboldt: 2010, apartment, renters)

[shy girl]

i moved from chicago to new jersey 7 years ago, and i tell you that i have been so home sick, the only thing that keeps me from going back is the cold. i know in new jersey is cold, but lord! Chicago is way colder! I love Chicago and I miss it soooooo much

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by paytonc

It's also hard to understate just how dramatic an effect gentrification has on population. Two first-time homebuyers I know in "up and coming" city neighborhoods replaced 6-8 person households with 2. Multiply that across entire neighborhoods, and you're looking at population losses that nearly outweigh all the new construction -- even in "hot spots" like West Town and Lake View.

The long-standing flight from cities for the usual reasons is also still occurring in Chicago -- just as it is in NYC, LA, and all other major American cities. The big cities have always been "factories for Americans," where immigrants arrive before moving along; reportedly, one in seven Americans can trace their ancestry through Brooklyn alone. This is nothing new.

Hi there-- I'm doing some preliminary investigation of Chicago as a place to possibly live. This forum topic just caught my eye. So with this "gentrification" process going on-- do you think Chicago could be at risk of losing its character-- what makes it Chicago? Young singles are great-- I'm one myself-- but a city with nothing but young singles doesn't sound like a very happy place to me. Oh yeah-- and the "Brooklyn" comment is SO true!

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by NYrules

I think many of the northern cities like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and so on have been loosing people for many years due to the growing popularity of the sun-belt states where cities like Phoenix, Austin and Las Vegas welcome people in with open arms and the cost of living by comparison with Chicago is either similar or lower. That said, more and more companies are moving into regions like Austin, Houston, San Antonio because they know they can entice more potential employees into their companies at lower salaries as the cost of living and doing business is a little lower. Another thing that makes it really rough for northern cities to attract new movers is common knowledge that northern cities have less appealing winters and are typically very old meaning: old roads, housing, schools, infrastructure, lack of open land causing people to seek out new and fresh areas. All that said it really surprises me that Chicago isn't losing more people to sun-belt areas.

I think it ought to be noted that there's one big difference between the population loss in Chicago compared to Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis, and other Midwestern cities. As noted, gentrification in Chicago is drawing more higher income singles and DINKs into the city while larger households are moving out to the suburbs, which means that the city population is slowly dropping but getting wealthier on a per capita basis. At the same time, the Chicago metro area overall is still expanding in population at a fast clip.

In contrast, Detroit and the other Midwestern cities have continued to lose its middle-to-upper income residents to the suburbs or other regions of the country such as the Sunbelt(there might be exceptions with pockets of development in the downtown areas of those cities, but it is not the general rule) while not being replaced by anyone - unlike Chicago, they are losing population rapidly AND losing wealth. Meanwhile, the population of the metro areas of those other Midwestern cities are barely expanding at rates much lower than the rest of the U.S. (or even losing people).

[reppin_the_847]

You're absolutely on point with this one. I know for a fact that a lot of the Detroit metro's (including University of Michigan-Ann Arbor) wealthy yuppie folk and college grads are being exported right here to Chicago. Same goes for the other Midwestern states such as Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, central Illinois (products of University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana, although a large chunk of these people grew up in Chicagoland also), Iowa, etc. Someone casually referred to Chicago the other day in front of me as the "Midwest capital".

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I think it ought to be noted that there's one big difference between the population loss in Chicago compared to Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis, and other Midwestern cities. As noted, gentrification in Chicago is drawing more higher income singles and DINKs into the city while larger households are moving out to the suburbs, which means that the city population is slowly dropping but getting wealthier on a per capita basis. At the same time, the Chicago metro area overall is still expanding in population at a fast clip.

In contrast, Detroit and the other Midwestern cities have continued to lose its middle-to-upper income residents to the suburbs or other regions of the country such as the Sunbelt(there might be exceptions with pockets of development in the downtown areas of those cities, but it is not the general rule) while not being replaced by anyone - unlike Chicago, they are losing population rapidly AND losing wealth. Meanwhile, the population of the metro areas of those other Midwestern cities are barely expanding at rates much lower than the rest of the U.S. (or even losing people).

[nolongerinIL]

We just moved to Boston. We absolutely love it here. I have run into tons of people who used to live in Chicago or the outlying burbs who now live in Boston or the outlying burbs. I see a lot of cubs hats. Infact, I met a teacher last week who lives in Plainfield looking for work in Boston while waiting for the bus.

Chicago and the outlying areas for that matter are becoming too expensive. Sales tax is 12% in Chicago, 10% in Schaumburg and almost 9% in most of Cook county . Never mind the fact that we had to pay almost $240 a year to drive our cars between the plate and city stickers.

The housing market went through the roof the last 6 years. Where I could get a house for 200k, it is now 5-600k. Property tax in Cook county is outrageous.

Infact, I did a comparison of Boston and Chicago. The cost of living is exactly the same. The only difference is the sales tax is 5%, there is no tax on food nor clothing, the T is much more affordable to ride ($1.70 for a train and bus ride) and much, much cleaner with up-to-date stations. Hell, even the T cabs are much more roomy than those L cars. The car insurance is similar and Mass is a regulated state until 4/08.

For those who said that Chicago doesn't have a homeless problem, are you that blind? Go down Michigan Avenue or infront of the Sheraton Towers where a man spills shine all over your shoes and harasses you for a quarter. How about all the homeless that ride the L all night to stay warm during the brutal Chicago winters? Daley doesn't care. All he wants is his stupid olympics.

I am paying $600 more a month rent wise than I did when I lived in Mundelein (an hour 15 minutes outside of the city!!!) but I am 5 miles outside of Boston and I do not have to own a car. There is so much cheap public transportation that we actually gave one to charity.

Chicago is no longer the bio-tech, financial or It hub. My husband who has a CPA received 9x more interest in Boston than he ever did in Chicago. He has an endless supply of employment out here.

Also, when we need a seat for our son or we have tons of groceries, people actually get up. They do not sit there pretend ignoring you. They also do not shove you to get on a bus. They politely wait as you enter and exit. Not the same crap of riding the trolley from Navy Pier when no jag would give my 2 yo son a seat. He was flung so much around that trolley that he had bruises.

You can't have an east coast housing market on a midwest income. People leave.

[Drover]

All of the above might make sense if the metro area were losing population. But it's not. It's still growing, and I don't think it's because of high birth rates. For all the people who leave, just as many and more are coming.

[nolongerinIL]

Originally Posted by Drover

All of the above might make sense if the metro area were losing population. But it's not. It's still growing, and I don't think it's because of high birth rates. For all the people who leave, just as many and more are coming.

There are several sites that show Chicago's population is declining.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by nolongerinIL

There are several sites that show Chicago's population is declining.

That's fine and all, but even if we accept the Census Bureau estimate at face value, that doesn't change the fact that the metropolitan area is still growing. There may be a net outflow from the city proper, but there is not a net outflow from the Chicago area.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by nolongerinIL

We just moved to Boston. We absolutely love it here. I have run into tons of people who used to live in Chicago or the outlying burbs who now live in Boston or the outlying burbs. I see a lot of cubs hats. Infact, I met a teacher last week who lives in Plainfield looking for work in Boston while waiting for the bus.

Chicago and the outlying areas for that matter are becoming too expensive. Sales tax is 12% in Chicago, 10% in Schaumburg and almost 9% in most of Cook county . Never mind the fact that we had to pay almost $240 a year to drive our cars between the plate and city stickers.

The housing market went through the roof the last 6 years. Where I could get a house for 200k, it is now 5-600k. Property tax in Cook county is outrageous.

Infact, I did a comparison of Boston and Chicago. The cost of living is exactly the same. The only difference is the sales tax is 5%, there is no tax on food nor clothing, the T is much more affordable to ride ($1.70 for a train and bus ride) and much, much cleaner with up-to-date stations. Hell, even the T cabs are much more roomy than those L cars. The car insurance is similar and Mass is a regulated state until 4/08.

For those who said that Chicago doesn't have a homeless problem, are you that blind? Go down Michigan Avenue or infront of the Sheraton Towers where a man spills shine all over your shoes and harasses you for a quarter. How about all the homeless that ride the L all night to stay warm during the brutal Chicago winters? Daley doesn't care. All he wants is his stupid olympics.

I am paying $600 more a month rent wise than I did when I lived in Mundelein (an hour 15 minutes outside of the city!!!) but I am 5 miles outside of Boston and I do not have to own a car. There is so much cheap public transportation that we actually gave one to charity.

Chicago is no longer the bio-tech, financial or It hub. My husband who has a CPA received 9x more interest in Boston than he ever did in Chicago. He has an endless supply of employment out here.

Also, when we need a seat for our son or we have tons of groceries, people actually get up. They do not sit there pretend ignoring you. They also do not shove you to get on a bus. They politely wait as you enter and exit. Not the same crap of riding the trolley from Navy Pier when no jag would give my 2 yo son a seat. He was flung so much around that trolley that he had bruises.

You can't have an east coast housing market on a midwest income. People leave.

Funny, Ive heard people who moved here from Boston who are saying the exact opposite you are: its cheaper in Chicago, alot more jobs, more to do, better suburbs, better transportation, etc. Sounds like someone has a chip on his/her shoulder. Boston is a fine city, no doubt. But its also alot smaller, you have to remember that.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by nolongerinIL

Chicago and the outlying areas for that matter are becoming too expensive. Sales tax is 12% in Chicago, 10% in Schaumburg and almost 9% in most of Cook county . Never mind the fact that we had to pay almost $240 a year to drive our cars between the plate and city stickers.

Just wait till you get your vehicle excise tax in the mail. I also have a hard time believing your auto insurance is cheaper. My premiums dropped in half when I moved from Somerville, MA to Oak Park.

Also, state income tax is 5.3%, and capital gains are taxed at 12%.

Boston is a great place, and we miss it, but low cost of living is not the way I would describe it.