The food desert problem v. Would this solution work? (Chicago: apartment, luxury)

[chirack]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

There is no excuse. I am sure every household interested could pitch in $5 and things would be up in running in no time. Maybe they need some community organizers that actually know what they are doing.

Ah no does not work that way. A business needs profit and the poorer the area the less disposable income there is to make it. Then add in increased theft and extra security and your business can be in the red soon. In addition why should people fork over $5? It isn't like they are going to get a financial return on their investment.

I used to live in on the west side and while not a food desert it wasn't profit central. Basically expensive name brands not found. Organic food that goes for extra not found, Delis rare. Food stamps making up the majority of purchases which limit which items you would have in stock (i.e. they don’t pay for everything.). Larger and Bulk sizes of items limited(less cash to buy the large vs. the small).

About the only plus side would be the fact that a grocery store will see some business all through the week due to the fact that people without cars can’t carry as much. There are other business like say clothing stores that used to have to deal with all of the purchases being made near the first of the month (when benefits arrive) and not much all month long.

Poor areas can have some bizarre economics.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by chirack

Ah no does not work that way. A business needs profit and the poorer the area the less disposable income there is to make it. Then add in increased theft and extra security and your business can be in the red soon. In addition why should people fork over $5? It isn't like they are going to get a financial return on their investment.

Erm, the people would own the "business" themselves as a non-profit. Get it?
Any profits made can be reinvested to make the operation larger or improve it.

It sounds like you are making excuses for people that want something for nothing. Don't get suckered into that.

I guess people have a problem grasping being pragmatic.

[chirack]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

Erm, the people would own the "business" themselves as a non-profit. Get it?
Any profits made can be reinvested to make the operation larger or improve it.

It sounds like you are making excuses for people that want something for nothing. Don't get suckered into that.

I guess people have a problem grasping being pragmatic.

No, not making excuses just stating facts. Honestly don't know how to solve this problem as it is more related to the fact that a concentration of poor people live in certain areas rather than poor and rich being more mixed.
Plus mixing the poor and the rich would be unstable. Either the poor and their drama will drive off the better offs or the rich will run the prices up and drive out the poor.

As for non profits, that sounds like skirting the law. By definition a nonprofit isn't set up to make profits (they can but they are usually dependant on donations to some extent).

Anyway while there is more capital in poor areas than most expect there isn't enough concentrated capital to make things change easy. It isn't like ghettos only contain non working people. Lots of working people live there esp. low paid workers. The problem is ghettos lack the people making 100,000+ a year (Doctors, high powered lawyers, ect.). Those are the people with the most disposable income and they the difference between Lincoln Park and Garfield Park.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by chirack

No, not making excuses just stating facts.

As for non profits, that sounds like skirting the law. By definition a nonprofit isn't set up to make profits (they can but they are usually dependant on donations to some extent).

You get 500 households to pay $5 and guess what? There is $2500 to start up with.

Do you know what a co-op is?

I guess there are many people that have no vision or pragmatism otherwise this would have been done already in the last several decades in many neighborhoods that need help.

Maybe people in the "food deserts" that want to change their plight should go to places such as these for help in how to start their own co-op's:

http://www.chicagofoodcoop.org/

http://dillpicklefoodcoop.org/

I mean look at what some people that have vision have accomplished:

http://www.chicagohoneycoop.com/

[chirack]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

You get 500 households to pay $5 and guess what? There is $2500 to start up with.

Do you know what a co-op is?

I guess there are many people that have no vision or pragmatism otherwise this would have been done already in the last several decades in many neighborhoods that need help.

Maybe people in the "food deserts" that want to change their plight should go to places such as these for help in how to start their own co-op's:

Chicago Food Co-Operative

A community-owned grocery store in Logan Square, Chicago | Dill Pickle Food Co-op | 3039 W. Fullerton, Chicago, IL

I mean look at what some people that have vision have accomplished:

Chicago Honey Co-op - Welcome

Food co-opts are a great idea for working class people esp. if you can get one from work. However my experience has been that poor people don’t stay put. In fact I think that alone is the biggest problem with places like Garfield Park. Hard to organize a community when lots of people are moving in and out of the community and within the community.

Renters are easy come easy go. Homeowners are people that stay and are the backbone of organization.

Anyway what often happens is they use the local food pantries. There you can get items that do not spoil easy. Flour, sugar, butter, rice, canned items.

[AmosBanks]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

You get 500 households to pay $5 and guess what? There is $2500 to start up with.

Do you know what a co-op is?

I guess there are many people that have no vision or pragmatism otherwise this would have been done already in the last several decades in many neighborhoods that need help.

I forgot about a co-op. Seems like there could be a market if even 1/6 of the 3000-household community could band together and benefit from their monthly purchasing power.

The comment about how this doesn't seem to be a problem in Latino neighborhoods was spot on.

[Humboldt1]

I still think everyone is lumping all poor people together. It is also culture and race.

Petes serves some less affluent areas on the south side just as cermaks el guero and a number of other hispanic and greek and italian grocers.

It is not just about affluence. There are plenty of areas where people are not making close to 100k per year that have great groceries.

Without Oak Park much of Austin would be a food desert (apart from moo and oink).

I bank a few grocers and can tell you why the owners do not like setting up stores in certain neighborhoods but this forum will not allow such truth. These are some of the most racist guys you will ever meet and yet some of the most business astute, many without formal education, just very street-smart. They all have net worths of 8 to 9 figs and are self-made.

[tonythetuna]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

I still think everyone is lumping all poor people together. It is also culture and race.

There are poor people of every race and culture that make attempts to better themselves with different degrees of success. Then there are poor people of every race and culture that do nothing than expect everything handed to them.

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

I bank a few grocers and can tell you why the owners do not like setting up stores in certain neighborhoods but this forum will not allow such truth. These are some of the most racist guys you will ever meet and yet some of the most business astute, many without formal education, just very street-smart. They all have net worths of 8 to 9 figs and are self-made.

I have a hard time believing that there are all THAT many grocers in the Chicago area with 9 figure net worths. Maybe the owners of stores like Jewel or Dominick's and they would probably need to own several of them.

[Savoir Faire]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

Someone should ask why there are not food deserts in poor hispanic areas. You can find fresh produce at cermak.

The diet for many American, particularly poor Americans is garbage. Processed crap, fast food, and stuff loaded with high fructose corn syrup. In Latin American countries many people still cook from scratch, using whole foods. You'll find a produce market in virtually every town, no matter how poor they are. No tv dinners or frozen pizza, just raw fruits, vegetables, even live chickens. McDonald's is considered a luxury. When the immigrants from those countries migrate to the US, they bring those customs. It wouldn't surprise me if the diet changes from one generation to another, less avocado, more KFC.