Chicago shrinks by over 200,000 in the 2000's Part II (Aurora: apartments, neighborhood)

[Failte]

Originally Posted by Tabak

We still live here but we are thinking about moving out when housing comes back and we can dump this condo on somebody. The main reason is crime. I can put up with the high taxes, so-so public schools and potholes. But I cannot accept living anywhere that I do not feel that is safe for me and my wife. And while they say crime is down it certainly does not seem to be the case in Rogers Park these days. The place felt safer in the 90's except for Howard Street.

Sounds like you've been up there for awhile if you're referencing the '90s. I think a lot of areas that saw gentrification will revert, at least partially, back to the old days...Rogers Park was always shady but I knew of several professionals buying up there through mid-'00s. Has crime gotten worse the past few years as the economy collapsed?

[Tabak]

Originally Posted by Failte

Sounds like you've been up there for awhile if you're referencing the '90s. I think a lot of areas that saw gentrification will revert, at least partially, back to the old days...Rogers Park was always shady but I knew of several professionals buying up there through mid-'00s. Has crime gotten worse the past few years as the economy collapsed?

I don't know what the stats say. I can only go by my own experiences. I have lived here all my life. I graduated from Senn High. Rogers Park was never really "gentrified". There has always been lots of lower income people that live here. Especially east of Clark Street. And then you had the higher income "yuppies" in the 1980s that hung around Heartland Cafe. We are sort of between those classes and probably people like that make up a lot of what Rogers Park is today. Lots of people that live here because they want to be close to the lake and the train and they cannot afford Lakeview or Lincoln Park.
That said, while there were always some seedy parts of Rogers Park like Howard Street and Morse Ave, I never felt unsafe here until recently. We had a few minor crimes like car break ins and such but I never saw shootouts in mid day or had my own car swiped out of my own parking place until the past year. Even back in the 80's you could walk to the Jewel on Morse Ave (not there anymore) without fear even after nightfall. Morse Ave was a street that was filled with businesses and was thriving. I just don't know what is going on these days in Chicago.

[Failte]

Originally Posted by Tabak

I don't know what the stats say. I can only go by my own experiences. I have lived here all my life. I graduated from Senn High. Rogers Park was never really "gentrified". There has always been lots of lower income people that live here. Especially east of Clark Street. And then you had the higher income "yuppies" in the 1980s that hung around Heartland Cafe. We are sort of between those classes and probably people like that make up a lot of what Rogers Park is today. Lots of people that live here because they want to be close to the lake and the train and they cannot afford Lakeview or Lincoln Park.
That said, while there were always some seedy parts of Rogers Park like Howard Street and Morse Ave, I never felt unsafe here until recently. We had a few minor crimes like car break ins and such but I never saw shootouts in mid day or had my own car swiped out of my own parking place until the past year. Even back in the 80's you could walk to the Jewel on Morse Ave (not there anymore) without fear even after nightfall. Morse Ave was a street that was filled with businesses and was thriving. I just don't know what is going on these days in Chicago.

That's too bad...but yeah Rogers Park never really gentrified but was more as you described it. It's not a good feeling when you feel unsafe where you live. I wonder how those condos purchased in '00s are doing market resale wise?

[grapico]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

If was a suburban person, I wouldve chosen a warmer less expensive part of the country. I thrive off the energy and the hussle of a city like Chicago. Fwiw, Chicago isnt as expensive as NYC, DC and other cities in its tier.

You get wha2 you pay for!!!

NYC is not in Chicago's tier.

[tonythetuna]

And people think Chicago's numbers are bad :

"Detroit's population dropped 25 percent over the last decade to its lowest level in a century, according to Census figures released on Tuesday. The city's population fell to 713,777 last year from 951,270 in 2000 when the last census was taken as the region suffered from a struggling automotive industry, plant closures and job losses."


Detroit population drops to lowest level in 100 years - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110322/us_nm/us_census_detroit;_ylt=AoBOjI.z7DFU559ULsI9SEFvzwc F;_ylu=X3oDMTJpa2N0Nm1uBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwMzIyL3V zX2NlbnN1c19kZXRyb2l0BGNwb3MDMwRwb3MDNgRzZWMDeW5fd G9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNkZXRyb2l0cG9wdWw- - broken link)

[MannheimMadman]

Originally Posted by tonythetuna

And people think Chicago's numbers are bad :

"Detroit's population dropped 25 percent over the last decade to its lowest level in a century, according to Census figures released on Tuesday. The city's population fell to 713,777 last year from 951,270 in 2000 when the last census was taken as the region suffered from a struggling automotive industry, plant closures and job losses."


Detroit population drops to lowest level in 100 years - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110322/us_nm/us_census_detroit;_ylt=AoBOjI.z7DFU559ULsI9SEFvzwc F;_ylu=X3oDMTJpa2N0Nm1uBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwMzIyL3V zX2NlbnN1c19kZXRyb2l0BGNwb3MDMwRwb3MDNgRzZWMDeW5fd G9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNkZXRyb2l0cG9wdWw- - broken link)

I saw that in the NYT, too. It's so sad to see what happens when a city can't diversify its economy. If it weren't for such a large influx of white collar jobs and the CBOE, we'd probably be right there with them.

[Chicago60614]

Well there was also probably some major under-counting going on in a lot of cities. It's strange that SO MANY large cities were so far below what everyone on the ground was thinking, and what census estimates came up with using a variety of factors. Phoenix, Houston, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, St. Louis, Dallas, etc. etc. They all fell far short.

I think a lot of it is that few people in many cities turned in the census, and our culture has gotten that we are much less inclined to run to the door and answer it when we aren't expecting it to be knocked on. With all our smart phones and connectivity, we don't like things happening when we don't already know they're going to happen.

In Chicago I think it puts some flags up that school enrollment didn't decline on any large level from 2000 to 2010, the number of households in the city that have mail delivery is up in the past 10 years, the CTA ridership is up a decent level, the number of new housing units is in the tens of thousands. Many areas on the west and south sides saw 25% drops in their population, yet the situation on the ground says they're stable in many many cases.

[aragx6]

^I find the mail delivery thing interesting. There are thousands of residences in St. Louis that USPS considers active and are currently sending mail to. Even if only half of those legitimately have people living in them who weren't counted, that could make up for most of St. Louis' loss.

I've wondered at the reasons for a significant undercount this year if we haven't seen something like it in the past, but I think your explanation, in tandem with a fear of retribution for illegal residents, makes a lot of sense.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Well there was also probably some major under-counting going on in a lot of cities. It's strange that SO MANY large cities were so far below what everyone on the ground was thinking, and what census estimates came up with using a variety of factors. Phoenix, Houston, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, St. Louis, Dallas, etc. etc. They all fell far short.

I think a lot of it is that few people in many cities turned in the census, and our culture has gotten that we are much less inclined to run to the door and answer it when we aren't expecting it to be knocked on. With all our smart phones and connectivity, we don't like things happening when we don't already know they're going to happen.

In Chicago I think it puts some flags up that school enrollment didn't decline on any large level from 2000 to 2010, the number of households in the city that have mail delivery is up in the past 10 years, the CTA ridership is up a decent level, the number of new housing units is in the tens of thousands. Many areas on the west and south sides saw 25% drops in their population, yet the situation on the ground says they're stable in many many cases.

You make a very interesting point about Chicago. I was looking at CTA ridership at 2000 vs 2010 and it was up siginificantly in 2010 from 2000. Seems very strange to me. And you are right about CPS enrollment, it's down a bit, but not much.

[MannheimMadman]

Originally Posted by aragx6

^I find the mail delivery thing interesting. There are thousands of residences in St. Louis that USPS considers active and are currently sending mail to. Even if only half of those legitimately have people living in them who weren't counted, that could make up for most of St. Louis' loss.

I've wondered at the reasons for a significant undercount this year if we haven't seen something like it in the past, but I think your explanation, in tandem with a fear of retribution for illegal residents, makes a lot of sense.

Is there a large population of illegals in St. Louis? In Chicago, I think that was the huge reason for messed up numbers. The illegals I know at work do their best to fly under the radar in any way possible. It's absolutely crazy the lengths they'll go to.