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Our schools are meant to help growing kids fit into the economy as adults, so it is reasonable the syllabus should reflect the jobs found in our economy. But, it doesn't. Employment as a welder requires a course and certification with on the job training. It isn't something one can learn in most high schools. Same goes for electricians and plumbing. These are vocations one gets training for once one finds a company willing to hire you. They will send you to courses so you can be certified, but the majority of what is learned is on the job. Plumbers do not need English, Biology or Calculus. Electricians do not need a full History of the World or a course in Economics. A gardener doesn't need Physics or Chemistry. They need the vocational skills in the profession they are employed. Some of these skills require a few years of training; why not allow highschool students graduate with industrial skills if they cannot do so with academic skills?
Because some day those gardeners, plumbers and electricians might want to go back to college to get degree in something completely different. If they never learned writing, math, etc. their chances of success decrease. Why box our kids into one career so young?
Well, we have Dunbar and CVS which are vocational high schools. I think there should be more pre-apprentice instruction for individuals who will go into trades, though.
Plus, everyone needs basic shop and financial knowledge.
When Chicago's drop out rate is so high, college loses priority. I meant it as a measure to combat poverty and crime. Kids are joining gangs when they are 15 years old instead of learning the tools they need for a real future.
Plus, if we graduate fifteen thousand graduates in industrial trades a year, citation here, the cost of employment in industry will also go down, as the supply of trained and qualified labor is increased. Contractors, to compete for work, will slash their prices and it wont costs you fifty thousand to remodel your kitchen.
Should basic industrial skills be taught to all students of Chicago?
Last edited by Smedskjaer; 04-03-2011 at 10:56 AM..
Reason: correction of a statistic
I think kids do need exposure to shop class, but they still need what they're learning in High School before they move onto any specialized training. Anyone going into ANY field of work needs to have the basic English and Math skills to be able to understand contracts, basic accounting, write a resume, write a proposal, etc. A basic understanding of History, Economics, etc. is crucial to any functioning democracy.
I also think you really short sell the skills needed for a lot of jobs. A gardener ABSOLUTELY needs to have chemistry, physics, and biology classes. Chemistry especially, for soil testing, fertilizer mixing and application, pesticide composition and application, understanding of the life cycle of various plant types etc. A welder ABSOLUTELY needs to understand geometry and trigonometry in order to learn how to read plans (and will then have to learn welding symbols). They also need to know chemistry and physics to even understand what the different types of welding are and when to use them, what different shielding gasses are and the flow rates to set, how much power should be going through the electrode based on the chemical composition of the flux and the thickness of the material, etc. (and that's just the rudimentary basics, it can get much more complex than that).
I do think schools should be doing a better job exposing kids to some of these skills (as well as basic applied computer skills - no one should graduate without being able to build macros and do basic CSS) but there is no way High Schools can train people for truly skilled jobs, that has to be done at a trade school after high school or through an apprenticeship. Right now the kids who are dropping out of Chicago high schools are doing so without the skills they would need to even begin to pick up most trades, so even if schools offer more trades classes it won't do anything to the drop out rate, but it might help some of the kids who do stay in school until graduation.
While I do not know how the education system in Chicago works, I do remember what school was like back in Ohio...I went to a fairly progressive school, and they taught many different, diverse subjects to try to give kids a well-rounded education. There were different "tracks" one chould choose, the 2 basic tracks were College Prep and Vocational Prep.
While College Prep was self-explanatory, with VP, you spent the freshman and sophomore years at the regular HS campus, and then the last 2 years at JVS (Joint Vocational School) learning a trade, whether that was beauty shop, automotive repair, farming, etc. It was a specialized training path that kids would choose if there was a specific trade that they wanted to enter.
Either way, the school I went to had a much different way of approaching the subject material. It was set up more like a college campus, and offered some crazy classes. Not only were there some mandatory subjects, like Algebra, etc, but they then offered many crazy and interesting electives that you had to choose from, such as Aviation Science, The Stock Market, etc. They also did not have a standard "gym class"; instead, they had over 20 different athletic-oriented classes that could appeal to different people. Each class was half-a-quarter long and had a specialty, such as Football, Soccer, Baseball, but also things like Roller Skating, Archery, Fencing, Camping, etc. It was crazy!!
Anyway, back to Smedskjaer's question "Should basic industrial skills be taught to all students of Chicago?", the middle school in that district I went to taught Home Ec, which at the time was Cooking, Sewing, Typing, Metal Shop, and Wood Shop...I am not sure it would make sense to offer Car Repair, HVAC Repair, Gardening, etc for free, but instead, offer these thru the vocational high school, or simply leave it to post-high school education vendors to offer it. This might be the way it works now, I am not sure. I do think that schools need to offer Basic Finance as well as Critical Thinking courses.
It is interesting to note, that in France, almost no one attends "college", as that is reserved for only the top students from each high school...instead, most kids are groomed to attend trade school after high school and to go directly into a career after that...but here in the US, most people have been taught that "college is the way to go", now we have way too many kids with student loan debt, and no way to pay for it, as there are not enough white collar jobs anymore to go around.
....Anyone going into ANY field of work needs to have the basic English and Math skills to be able to understand contracts, basic accounting, write a resume, write a proposal, etc. A basic understanding of History, Economics, etc. is crucial to any functioning democracy....
....A gardener ABSOLUTELY needs to have chemistry, physics, and biology classes. Chemistry especially....
A welder ABSOLUTELY needs to understand geometry and trigonometry in order to learn how to read plans (and will then have to learn welding symbols). They also need to know chemistry and physics to even understand what the different types of welding are and when to use them, what different shielding gasses are and the flow rates to set, how much power should be going through the electrode based on the chemical composition of the flux and the thickness of the material....
....no one should graduate without being able to build macros and do basic CSS....
Right now the kids who are dropping out of Chicago high schools are doing so without the skills they would need to even begin to pick up most trades, so even if schools offer more trades classes it won't do anything to the drop out rate, but it might help some of the kids who do stay in school until graduation.
But what is basic? High schools try to advance kids through these subjects to meet specifications set by standard tests. Trigonometry and Calculus are two very different beasts. You really must commit to learn even basic calculus and if you are going to use it for anything than bragging rights, you can't depend on a reference book for rules and formulas. Trigonometry can be learned once and a reference book used afterwards to remind you what the difference between sine and cosine is and what a 3-4-5 triangle is.
History can also be reduced. Few Americans need to know the complex history of the Louisiana purchase, and few do. However, considering few Americans can tell you the year the Declaration of Independence was signed, I think history is a moot point.
I have worked in a number of fields. I went to a trade school for farming and I worked as a welder. I know the ins and outs. But I also know basic welding under the supervision of a smith can be done without even the slightest knowledge of physics. Project welding doesn't require advanced knowledge of the physics behind the trade. Would you agree some basic welding can be done without advanced knowledge under supervision?
Unless they are going to study, for example physics. I am doing fine without. Going to university soon and I do not know how to build macros or CSS. I will learn Python though.
I think not everyone is cut out for academic pursuits. Some kids, either for lack of mental capacity or lack of emotional strength due to social problems at home, will never be able to learn the syllabus high schools teach and they will fail if we push them. Teens are emotional and going through neurological changes in a growth spurt and may lack the energy to do the homework. Maybe after they have matured they can go back for a GED, but it is more important these kids in danger of failing do not leave the school until after they have learned at least some skills. They may find it easier to learn a vocation instead and choose to stay, which is my intent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartGXL
Anyway, back to Smedskjaer's question "Should basic industrial skills be taught to all students of Chicago?", the middle school in that district I went to taught Home Ec, which at the time was Cooking, Sewing, Typing, Metal Shop, and Wood Shop...I am not sure it would make sense to offer Car Repair, HVAC Repair, Gardening, etc for free, but instead, offer these thru the vocational high school, or simply leave it to post-high school education vendors to offer it. This might be the way it works now, I am not sure. I do think that schools need to offer Basic Finance as well as Critical Thinking courses.
It is the way it works now and it isn't working.
Last edited by Smedskjaer; 04-03-2011 at 12:59 PM..
Reason: Asking a question.
no, I don't they should have them at the college level either, I think those people should go to vocational school or trade school separate from h.s. or college and stop wasting resources and their own time really, how many people are there that hate school and just going through the motions, quite a few. I also don't think everybody should be going to college, it is a waste for some. This whole idea everybody needs to go to college is dumb imo and has watered down the market.
"What is basic"? Well, calculus is not taught to to the majority of high school students, and those who do take it are advanced students who take it in their senior year. "Basic" for many kids means learning to not stay up until 2 AM every night and expect to sleep at school.
The vast majority of kids who graduate from a CPS high school have never taken calculus. The basics for math are trig, algebra, and geometry. Of course people will refer back to reference materials later, but they need to understand the concepts and know when to reach for reference materials. The kids who drop out of CPS are not dropping out because they aren't relating to their class lessons, they're dropping out because their parents (if they're around) don't value education, and because they have not been taught to view schools as a way to get an education. When (or if) they go to school it is to hang out with their peers, not to learn anything. Many of them also stay up way too late, eat crap food, and are dealing with major family crises (if they are lucky enough to have a family). Tweaking the curriculum is going to have absolutely no effect on the majority of kids who are struggling in CPS. As I said before, I think it could be a good approach to prepare some kids who DO graduate for careers, but it won't really do anything to address the major problems that face CPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smedskjaer
History can also be reduced. Few Americans need to know the complex history of the Louisiana purchase, and few do. However, considering few Americans can tell you the year the Declaration of Independence was signed, I think history is a moot point.
The problem is that history HAS been reduced to what tests cover instead of covering concepts. It needs to be expanded, not reduced. Quite honestly memorizing dates doesn't matter, what matters is understanding the concepts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smedskjaer
I have worked in a number of fields. I went to a trade school for farming and I worked as a welder. I know the ins and outs. But I also know basic welding under the supervision of a smith can be done without even the slightest knowledge of physics. Project welding doesn't require advanced knowledge of the physics behind the trade. Would you agree some basic welding can be done without advanced knowledge under supervision?
Can basic stuff be learned without learning the underlying reasons? Sure. But that person will be stuck in a low paying dead end job. And with the economy in the state it's in that person will probably never even get a job. To become a SKILLED welder a person does need to be able to grasp the underlying concepts. If someone can grasp that out of hight school they can hit the ground running, if they don't they'll spend a lot of extra time finding a different way to learn those concepts (if they ever do at all).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smedskjaer
Going to university soon and I do not know how to build macros or CSS. I will learn Python though.
Python is a great language to learn (my company had been a PyCon sponsor for about 8 years). That is my general point about computer skills - you need to have some. I used to tutor kids in CPS high schools in basic computer skills and it meant theat they could get summer jobs for $20/Hour instead of $9/hour at McDonalds. It allowed a lot of them to go on to college or even just get a good paying job at a company that would then pay for them to get an Associates Degree.
Should industrial vocations be part of the syllabus of highschool education?
If you mean "curriculum" . . . they already are.
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