Do you think there are any regrets at the U of C for dropping major college sports? (Chicago: school, universities)

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by ole69

U of C is in not Ivy League.

Actually, many of the associations which include the Ivy League (particularly on the graduate level) include the U of C.

The south side and Hyde Park are socially and logistically irrelevant? Not so much. How much ink is garnered by places like Oberlin, William & Mary, Grinnell and Bucknell? Not so much but all are fine places of instruction. If your associates and forums like this one are oriented to the north side, a person is not going to hear many references to the south side.

Will UC go back to big time athletics? Those who ask that question must be unfamiliar with the former university president who a few years ago tried to change the core curriculum for the college. He was just about run out of Hyde Park on a rail by students, alumni and trustees.

[ole69]

Actually, no. There are 8 Ivy League colleges. That's it. Cornell, Columbia, Brown, Penn, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Dartmouth.

That's it. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know his or her history.

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by ole69

Actually, no. There are 8 Ivy League colleges. That's it. Cornell, Columbia, Brown, Penn, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Dartmouth.

That's it. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know his or her history.

There are many academic, research and financial ties among institutions. Many of these affinity groups include the Ivy League, Chicago and Stanford.

Anyone who is unfamiliar with this lacks knowledge about higher education in the US.

[ajolotl]

Originally Posted by ole69

Their admission rate was always at an "elite" level

No it wasn't. Look at the stats -- at one point over 60% were admitted. The argument was always that the school was self-selecting, so the student body was elite. But not the admissions stats. And even if you do consider 60% elite, yo can't deny that the drop is dramatic, from 60+% to whatever it is now (15% or less -- I forget details).

[grapico]

Originally Posted by Manigault

First of all, you have to understand that the U of C is primarily grad students from Division I schools: They've already had their fill of big time athletics. Secondly, not much of the Ivy League worries about their sports teams; why should Chicago?

Chicago is mostly graduate schools (and pre-graduate school students) so the lack of athletics is not a big issue. It competes with graduate programs elsewhere, not with undergraduate programs or 'quality of student life' issues.

Full disclosure: I met the Heisman trophy winner from the U when I was at Chicago, Jay Berwanger! He was a real nice guy.

Yeah, one need only look at enrollment for UChicago Undergrad, it isn't really a place for undergrad... I mean sure some go but I think enrollment for UG is like 2000, less than my high school.

[grapico]

Originally Posted by Manigault

There are many academic, research and financial ties among institutions. Many of these affinity groups include the Ivy League, Chicago and Stanford.

Anyone who is unfamiliar with this lacks knowledge about higher education in the US.

I am a member of iNet... a job center/internship thing shared by many universities. The universities get access to the same jobs/internships. The participating universities are...

Duke
Georgetown
Harvard
MIT
NYU
Northwestern
Rice
Penn
Stanford
USC
Yale

That being said, UC isn't an ivy league institution, but it is on the same or higher academic caliber.

As for elites of the elite... UChicago is part of the notorious HYCS... which stands for Harvard/Yale/Chicago/Stanford. very familiar to law folks...

But it isn't part of the social status HYP where all the waspy's went for undergrad... Harvard/Yale/Princeton

"Every city sends or has sent its Socially Registered sons to Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, in some preferred order, and to one local institution. This order varies. New York sets the pattern with Yale first, Harvard second, Princeton third, then Columbia. St. Louis and Baltimore are Princeton towns. Most other cities (Chicago, Cleveland, Cincinnati) are Yale towns. Only Boston, and occasionally Washington, are Harvard towns."

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by ole69

Actually, no. There are 8 Ivy League colleges. That's it. Cornell, Columbia, Brown, Penn, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, and Dartmouth.

That's it. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know his or her history.

I'm not sure that is all that heavy a dose of history. As an incorporated group, the Ivy League only goes back to 1954. And while it was informally used long before that, I never saw anywhere that identified the incorporated group of eight as being the only Ivies.

Let's face it: the term Ivy League is used informally in ways that has nothing to do with a formal pact between 8 schools after WWII.

What do the eight truly have in common? Are they all ancient? Hardly. Cornell is a product of the late 19th century. Are they all private universities. Yes and no. Cornell is has both private divisions within it along with public ones that go with its status as NY State's land grant institution.

The rankings (as meaningless as they may be) hardly gives any special aura to Ivy League institutions above that of other high quality schools. Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are invariably among the most elite of universities by all measurements. Penn and Cornell, on the other hand, swim in the same academic waters as Northwestern does. And how many people would doubt that Stanford is of the same ilk as Harvard, Yale, and Princeton?

We know how the term "Ivies" gets morphed in the group of "public ivies" and other such naming off shoots.

In the area of perception (which is really all we're talking about here anyway), a heck of a lot of people look at a far broader group of schools than the 8 that incorporated when they think "Ivy League".

And there is no special mantle attached to any of those 8 institutions based simply on the notion that those 8 made a conscious choice to come together and didn't use any non-existent-at-the-time USN&WR to determine membeship.

[ole69]

The 8 I named are the only Ivy League colleges. What do "business associations" have to do with it?

[Manigault]

Originally Posted by ole69

The 8 I named are the only Ivy League colleges. What do "business associations" have to do with it?

Well, since they may waive tuition for the children of professors who are tenured in the institutions, maybe quite a bit. So it would be quite an association with many business aspects among the members. You never heard of 'fac brats'?

"And some universities belong to consortiums that arrange reciprocal tuition waivers."
The New York Times > Education > Education Life > The Other Legacies: Fac Brats

Then there's sharing of library access, research and stuff like that. Some schools share and some don't. It depends what consortium the school belongs to.

With all that, I know the kind of consortium which counts among its numbers Stanford and Chicago.

[ole69]

Originally Posted by Manigault

Well, since they may waive tuition for the children of professors who are tenured in the institutions, maybe quite a bit. So it would be quite an association with many business aspects among the members. You never heard of 'fac brats'?

"And some universities belong to consortiums that arrange reciprocal tuition waivers."
The New York Times > Education > Education Life > The Other Legacies: Fac Brats

Then there's sharing of library access, research and stuff like that. Some schools share and some don't. It depends what consortium the school belongs to.

With all that, I know the kind of consortium which counts among its numbers Stanford and Chicago.

Nothing you're saying has anything to do with whether or not U of C or Stanford are part of the Ivy League. The Ivy League is the Ancient 8. That does not preclude them or others from having business associations. Having business associations does not grant one permission to the Ivy League, either.

Fac brats exist everywhere; they were not invented by the Ivy League, lol. Columbia used to have an exchange program with Fordham for some departments in the 90s.

Does that mean Fordham is part of the Ivy League? Nope.