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Old 07-11-2011, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Chicago
35,653 posts, read 53,323,154 times
Reputation: 24038
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrcousert View Post
Those people will probably stay put, but look at the freeways and you'll see that far more people commute to the cities than work in the suburbs.
You know what, my wife and I sit in that same bumper-to-bumper traffic every time we head to work --outbound. So that's not exactly a good yardstick to determine if more people work in the city than the suburbs. There are approximately 1.3 million jobs in Chicago. There are approximately 4 million jobs in the Chicago metro area. That means there are more jobs in the suburbs than the city by a comfortable margin.

I don't understand this bizarre fantasy that higher gas prices are going to force a reverse mass exodus from the suburbs back to the city. Gas prices have roughly tripled in the last decade. How'd that work out for the city's population?
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:40 PM
 
4,779 posts, read 5,183,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RingWalk View Post
Got it.

Well, what are you gonna do. I would imagine the metropolitian area as a whole has grown by leaps and bounds over the last few decades.

It's an American problem. In Detroit what's happened is the city has been abandoned, now the old inner ring suburbs are starting to be abandoned.

It will be interesting, perhaps morbidly interesting, to see what happens. Some of the neighborhoods are just so undesirable that no one would want to move there. And I don't mean just because of crime. They are just ugly, there is nothing to do, there is no reason to move there.
I know this is the Chicago forum, and not the Detroit forum, but to my observations when visiting, and then filling in what I know from census figures, maps, etc.

That maybe true for some suburbs that were HIGHLY industrialized like Ecorse/River Rouge. But other inner ring suburbs have become very revitalized such as Dearborn, East Dearborn is continuously being revitalized by Arab immigrants, where some of the successful ones have actually torn down smaller older houses and built bigger ones.

Ferndale is a Bohemain hot spot, as Royal Oak has become trendier and more like Birimngham. Ferndale is the center for the gay community.

The Gross Pointes are certainly aging, (empty nesters) but it is certainly not being abandoned.

Southfield last time I was through there . . well some homes looked they have seen better days, but that still is the largest business center in the area. Again, that maybe an aging/empty nester issue. Still an issue, but being abandoned might be stretching it.

Even Hamtramck during the 90s increased by 20% from immigrants from Yemen, Bangladesh, and Albania as the Polish population has assimilated and aged.



And sure Chicago metro area certainly has grown more than Detroit metro in the last 40 years, but Chicago metro growth is certainly sluggish compared with the sunbelt.
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:48 PM
 
956 posts, read 735,318 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
You know what, my wife and I sit in that same bumper-to-bumper traffic every time we head to work --outbound. So that's not exactly a good yardstick to determine if more people work in the city than the suburbs. There are approximately 1.3 million jobs in Chicago. There are approximately 4 million jobs in the Chicago metro area. That means there are more jobs in the suburbs than the city by a comfortable margin.

I don't understand this bizarre fantasy that higher gas prices are going to force a reverse mass exodus from the suburbs back to the city. Gas prices have roughly tripled in the last decade. How'd that work out for the city's population?
True, but the fact remains that there are more jobs/employable head in the city than there are in the burbs, and there have been several well publicized movements of companies back into the city from suburban office campuses.

As far as gas prices go, they have tripled. This has also come during the worst housing market in decades. Even if people wanted to move back in from many areas, many are stuck right where they are thanks to underwater mortgages. We'll see what happens if gas is $4-$6/gal (or even more) after real estate stabilizes. It won't impact those that can afford to pay as much as they want to spend an exorbitant amount of money on fuel for their SUVs, but there will be a trend toward living closer to work (city and suburbs) for a lot more people in the future. I know way too many people dropping $250-$300+ a month on gas who are feeling the pinch to believe otherwise.
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:05 PM
 
Location: St. Augustine
9,258 posts, read 10,872,846 times
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I'd like to see reliable statistics on how many jobs are in the burbs and how many in the city. I've a sneaking suspician there are more in the burbs.

I did a quick search to find out but search engines are now so advertising dominated all I was getting was employent agencies and crap like that.
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:10 PM
 
Location: St. Augustine
9,258 posts, read 10,872,846 times
Reputation: 7364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
Ferndale is a Bohemain hot spot,
Is that where you go for roast duck and dumplings?


http://www.klasrestaurant.com/assets/applets/11949KlasDinner.pdf (broken link)
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Chicago - Logan Square
2,685 posts, read 3,103,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
I've a sneaking suspician there are more in the burbs.
Well yeah, considering that just the adjacent towns to Chicago and adjacent Counties to Cook county are 15-20 times larger than the city of Chicago it wouldn't be surprising that they have more jobs. But a land area that is 15 times larger having twice as many jobs isn't really a lot to be proud of.

The City of Chicago is still the economic engine of the region. It's also a lot easier to get into the Loop via Metra or CTA than it is to get to the burbs by driving or public transit. That's why we're seeing companies move back into the Loop.
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:38 PM
 
11,552 posts, read 3,873,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Indeed. What the city needs is for the ordinary neighborhood schools to do a good job so that people can simply move into a neighborhood with the assurance their kids will get a good education in the school down the street.

You know, like in 1950. I think such an improvement would do much to bring the prosperous working class, both white and blue collar, back to the city from places like Tinley and Downers and such. People who would like to live in the city and aren't looking for the trendy North Side "right this, right that" thing.
Try convincing urban planners and developers who believe that the high paying professional is the holy grail. I've come across people who wish every neighborhood in Chicago was like Lincoln Park.

Since there are a lot more working class people than yuppies, it would make sense for the city to focus on attracting them. However they suffer from the same thing all kids suffer when they play monopoly for the first time, only focus on obtaining boardwalk and ignore all the other properties. In all a fairness, this isn't unique to cities, Berwyn is even trying lure professionals, gays,and artists in an attempt to reinvent itself as the next Oak Park/Wicker Park.
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:36 AM
 
956 posts, read 735,318 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
I'd like to see reliable statistics on how many jobs are in the burbs and how many in the city. I've a sneaking suspician there are more in the burbs.

I did a quick search to find out but search engines are now so advertising dominated all I was getting was employent agencies and crap like that.
My post didn't go through earlier, but here is a pretty thorough breakdown by residence and place of employment across the Chicagoland region. It even gives the method of commute by area. Data is from 2000, but nothing has changed that dramatically in the last 10 yrs.

RTAMS - Work Trip Mode Share By Area

Short answer: Chicago city jobs = rest of Cook Co. jobs = other 5 IL county jobs.
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Chicago
35,653 posts, read 53,323,154 times
Reputation: 24038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
True, but the fact remains that there are more jobs/employable head in the city than there are in the burbs, and there have been several well publicized movements of companies back into the city from suburban office campuses.
No, there are not "more jobs/employable head" in the city than there are in the burbs. This is not a matter of opinion that can be argued on the merits. It is a verifiable fact that there are roughly twice as many jobs in the suburbs than there are in the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
As far as gas prices go, they have tripled. This has also come during the worst housing market in decades. Even if people wanted to move back in from many areas, many are stuck right where they are thanks to underwater mortgages. We'll see what happens if gas is $4-$6/gal (or even more) after real estate stabilizes. It won't impact those that can afford to pay as much as they want to spend an exorbitant amount of money on fuel for their SUVs, but there will be a trend toward living closer to work (city and suburbs) for a lot more people in the future. I know way too many people dropping $250-$300+ a month on gas who are feeling the pinch to believe otherwise.
I'm sorry but there is simply no reason to believe there's this massive wave of people just waiting to move back into the city once the housing market recovers. And "the worst housing market in decades" only occurred during the last couple years of the last decade. For the previous 7 or 8 years, there was a huge run-up in prices where people could have taken their built-up piles of equity and moved anywhere with it. Did they take it and move to the city en masse as gasoline prices ran up? No, they didn't.

If anything the housing slump at the very end of the decade would solidified the trends that took place over the previous several years. If the "people will flock back to the city as gas prices rise" theory were true, the rise in gas prices through the 2000s would have caused a massive population shift back to the city and, then the housing slump would have locked them there starting circa 2008, and then that population jump would have then been reflected in the 2010 census. But as we now know, that is not at all what happened.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:31 AM
 
1,210 posts, read 1,410,525 times
Reputation: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I'm sorry but there is simply no reason to believe there's this massive wave of people just waiting to move back into the city once the housing market recovers. And "the worst housing market in decades" only occurred during the last couple years of the last decade. For the previous 7 or 8 years, there was a huge run-up in prices where people could have taken their built-up piles of equity and moved anywhere with it. Did they take it and move to the city en masse as gasoline prices ran up? No, they didn't.

If anything the housing slump at the very end of the decade would solidified the trends that took place over the previous several years. If the "people will flock back to the city as gas prices rise" theory were true, the rise in gas prices through the 2000s would have caused a massive population shift back to the city and, then the housing slump would have locked them there starting circa 2008, and then that population jump would have then been reflected in the 2010 census. But as we now know, that is not at all what happened.
I don't think people who have been in the suburbs a long time are going to flock into the city due to gas or the like. Not anytime soon anyway, maybe in 20 years. That being said younger people are moving into cities and the suburbs in lots of major cities are hurting. Whether or not the young people remain in cities long term remains to be seen. I do think it's possible that we will have the opposite of what happened 1950s and see reverse white flight into the cities.
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