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Old 10-06-2011, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,201 posts, read 4,327,698 times
Reputation: 2325
Now THIS is amazing news:

Sodexo, worker union reach agreement in contract negotiations - Campus - The Daily Northwestern - Northwestern University (http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/campus/sodexo-worker-union-reach-agreement-in-contract-negotiations-1.2631036#.Tn15W5Yth4l/ - broken link)

Read the details to see how the students and faculty played a role in this. No government subsidies, no pitting one state against another, etc.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:33 AM
 
21,493 posts, read 35,630,164 times
Reputation: 10516
Interesting article.

Doesn't have to do with real unions or even Chicago, as it is largely a phenonma possible only at the intersection of spoiled college kids and the hippie type hangers on that college campuses too often attract but several things stirke me as particularly illustrative of what is wrong with too many on the political left.
Firstly it is pretty clear that the workers themselves did not benefit -- one woman was so angry once she realized the sham she left before even voting. For her it was obvious the "organizers" had been scammed -- only folks way down below $10/hr would be helped by the Sodexo offer. You can also bet that Sodexo did the math on "health care" and realized that Obamacare is already going to cover the low wage earners, so why not promise something that is coming anyway. Duh.

Further the brazen lawlessness of subverting legitimate efforts to ensure Employment Eligibility weakens true efforts to change immigration -- the shenanigans that "organizers" ands "protesters" from the hippie fringe get away with frankly causes to want to support candidates that would simply "lock up the scum" even though philosophically my leanings are much more toward domestic libertarianism and I know that real efforts that encourage political leaders in countries from which large numbers of illegal aliens enter the US to improve conditions in their own countries so that safety, wages, healthcare and other benefits of US residence would not seem so starkly absent in their home countries are really the most effective way to decrease illegal immigration. Not a whole heckuva of a lot a Candians swimming to Detroit... Sheesh.

Schapiro is right to refuse to meet with these buffoons. The Univeristy contracts with Sodexo to serve chow to students. I am 100% sure that the whiney overprivledged types that flock to NU are critical of the cost of the meal plans, the lack of "locally grown macrobiotic vegan" choices and generally treat the cafeteria as Dante's Eight Circle of Hell -- Fraud where the deception of alchemists, counterfieters, perjurers and impersonators happens (if they still read the classics between Womyns' Studies and outings to the lecture hall with the sawzall "female simulation" thing... If Schapiro personally reviewed every picayune contract that the University enters into old Morty would not have time to do research into economics and he,d **** off all the underlings that are tasked with finding the best deal for toilet paper, Cheetos and other necessities of college life.

If the punks that "organize" undocumented dishwashers or "occupying" Wall Street spend even a little time trying to help themselves and a little less time getting high maybe they would not so easily snookered by sharpies in HR for firms like Sodexo. I bet the guys on the other side of that table are laughing all the way to bank.

Last edited by chet everett; 10-06-2011 at 08:42 AM..
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:49 AM
 
Location: St. Augustine
9,258 posts, read 11,499,553 times
Reputation: 7406
Chett, because I was a union member I made at about 50% more than people doing the same work non union and was able to retire at 55 with a pension (from a fully vested and conservatively run fund controlled by trustees from both the union and our contractors) that paid (when I retired) as much as working a 40 hour week.

If you can explain how union membership wasn't in my interest I'll call you Aristotle.
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:38 AM
 
21,493 posts, read 35,630,164 times
Reputation: 10516
Tom:

In a handful of cases the members do benefit, but even in such situations the cost to other parties is extreme. As I said , a long time ago I had an electrician's helper card. The work I did should have been at minimum wage but it was approximately double because of the union. That meant the client was receiving no benefit, only paying more. It also meant that instead of hiring more "regular Joe" types that maybe would have used the money to support their family or help their kid go to better school it went to fat dumb me and I blew it on beer and pizza.

Honestly I can think of no job that any healthy person should be able to retire from at 55. What a waste. Even if you broke rocks with a pick axe (which I really doubt as there are a multitude of hydraulic /pneumatic tools that are far superior) there is no reason for your employer to pay for 30+ years of sitting on your duff. No disrespect meant but anyone retiring at 55 is scamming their employer big time.

I see folks in the 70s running marathon / doing triatholons. I think that is great. In fact in my "if I were king" world I would create opportunities for "super athletes" to be cops, firefighters and soliders. Lots of firehouses have a couple of barbells set up in corner already, but I am talking about going BIG TIME -- think how great it would be if instead being "connected" donut eating, beer swilling loads of excrement the city workers that kids would see would cause them to stand around and MARVEL at the fitness and efficiency of cops and firefighters. Instead of marathons being won by guys that run up Kilamanjaro barefoot it was won by guys that used their "48 off" to train in state-of-art conditions. Purse snatching would not exist as a crime as thugs would know there was no way to out run a super athlete cop.

I know there are a handful of public safety guys that are already pretty athletic, but it ain't because of any special culture. Instead I would ask you to look to the leadership of the Marine Corps. These guys are generals -- all in their late 50s or 60s. They all look like MARINES -- lean, hard, tough. Sure they spend a lot more time sitting around polished wood conference tables in the Pentagon than sleeping on a hillside in Afghanistan, but every old fart among 'em still looks like they could line up a sniper rifle and get "5 out of 5" qualifiying and never blink if the "target" was switched from a paper bullseye to some "insurgent". That is all about PRIDE and it ain't about getting something for nothing. That is what really disgusts me about unions these days -- they know there is nothing to be proud of by driving up your neighbors property tax bill. They know they have outlived their usefulness. They know they artificially limit the number of jobs and put a damper on economic competiveness. Let these morons in unions that get their marching orders from Soros and the Campaing to Re-Elect Mr. Hope & Change "stand in solidarity" with the hippies on Wall Street. When their pension funds tank DON'T COME LOOKING TO THE TAXPAYERS FOR A BAILOUT YOU STUPID SUCKERS!!!

Last edited by chet everett; 10-06-2011 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:08 AM
 
Location: St. Augustine
9,258 posts, read 11,499,553 times
Reputation: 7406
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Tom:

In a handful of cases the members do benefit, but even in such situations the cost to other parties is extreme.

The cost to others is not my concern. This is a capitalist society in which everyone is supposed to grab as much as they can regardless of the benefits to others, indeed, many conservatives believe it's beneficial to all that people are as grasping as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
there is no reason for your employer to pay for 30+ of sitting on your duff. No disrespect meant but anyone retiring at 55 is scamming their employer big time.
You say no disrespect is intended then accuse me of dishonesty. In any event no employer is paying me for sitting on my duff. The pension is funded by contributions made by contractors when I worked for them, contributions that were negotiated for and were in lieu of pay on the check. That's called making a deal. Capitalism 101. I was on the negotiating committee and the contractors care about the final number and are less concerned about how the union chooses to use that number; so much on the check, so much in the pension, so much for insurance and so forth.

That you resent my retiring early is an example of envy and class warfare.

In any event if people band together to further their economic interest it's really none of your business, whether they band together in corporations or unions. Nobody needs your approval. Nor are legal deals made between economic entities your business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
When their pension funds tank DON'T COME LOOKING TO THE TAXPAYERS FOR A BAILOUT YOU STUPID SUCKERS!!!

You call me stupid?

I expect no more from the government than banks, brokerage houses and corporations do.
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:58 AM
 
7,797 posts, read 5,486,182 times
Reputation: 3334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
The cost to others is not my concern. This is a capitalist society in which everyone is supposed to grab as much as they can regardless of the benefits to others, indeed, many conservatives believe it's beneficial to all that people are as grasping as possible.



You say no disrespect is intended then accuse me of dishonesty. In any event no employer is paying me for sitting on my duff. The pension is funded by contributions made by contractors when I worked for them, contributions that were negotiated for and were in lieu of pay on the check. That's called making a deal. Capitalism 101. I was on the negotiating committee and the contractors care about the final number and are less concerned about how the union chooses to use that number; so much on the check, so much in the pension, so much for insurance and so forth.

That you resent my retiring early is an example of envy and class warfare.

In any event if people band together to further their economic interest it's really none of your business, whether they band together in corporations or unions. Nobody needs your approval. Nor are legal deals made between economic entities your business.




You call me stupid?

I expect no more from the government than banks, brokerage houses and corporations do.
Tom, the problem is capitalism should only work for the rich. The pleebs should shut up and take their bread crumbs.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:06 AM
 
Location: St. Augustine
9,258 posts, read 11,499,553 times
Reputation: 7406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Tom, the problem is capitalism should only work for the rich. The pleebs should shut up and take their bread crumbs.

Indeed.

I've developed my own economic laws.

Irishtom's Laws of Wages

1. I'm overworked; you're overpaid.

2. My raise is the result of merit; yours is the result of greed.

3. My raise helps the economy; yours causes inflation.

4. My making more money helps me; your making more money harms you.

5. I deserve to be well paid but you should work for peanuts (which can be put as Rule 5a---My job should be done in The United States; your job should be done in China)

6. Those who say working people don't value hard work seldom value it themselves by a willingness to pay for it.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:17 AM
 
5,251 posts, read 4,383,795 times
Reputation: 4607
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Tom:

In a handful of cases the members do benefit, but even in such situations the cost to other parties is extreme. As I said , a long time ago I had an electrician's helper card. The work I did should have been at minimum wage but it was approximately double because of the union. That meant the client was receiving no benefit, only paying more. It also meant that instead of hiring more "regular Joe" types that maybe would have used the money to support their family or help their kid go to better school it went to fat dumb me and I blew it on beer and pizza.

Honestly I can think of no job that any healthy person should be able to retire from at 55. What a waste. Even if you broke rocks with a pick axe (which I really doubt as there are a multitude of hydraulic /pneumatic tools that are far superior) there is no reason for your employer to pay for 30+ years of sitting on your duff. No disrespect meant but anyone retiring at 55 is scamming their employer big time.

I see folks in the 70s running marathon / doing triatholons. I think that is great. In fact in my "if I were king" world I would create opportunities for "super athletes" to be cops, firefighters and soliders. Lots of firehouses have a couple of barbells set up in corner already, but I am talking about going BIG TIME -- think how great it would be if instead being "connected" donut eating, beer swilling loads of excrement the city workers that kids would see would cause them to stand around and MARVEL at the fitness and efficiency of cops and firefighters. Instead of marathons being won by guys that run up Kilamanjaro barefoot it was won by guys that used their "48 off" to train in state-of-art conditions. Purse snatching would not exist as a crime as thugs would know there was no way to out run a super athlete cop.

I know there are a handful of public safety guys that are already pretty athletic, but it ain't because of any special culture. Instead I would ask you to look to the leadership of the Marine Corps. These guys are generals -- all in their late 50s or 60s. They all look like MARINES -- lean, hard, tough. Sure they spend a lot more time sitting around polished wood conference tables in the Pentagon than sleeping on a hillside in Afghanistan, but every old fart among 'em still looks like they could line up a sniper rifle and get "5 out of 5" qualifiying and never blink if the "target" was switched from a paper bullseye to some "insurgent". That is all about PRIDE and it ain't about getting something for nothing. That is what really disgusts me about unions these days -- they know there is nothing to be proud of by driving up your neighbors property tax bill. They know they have outlived their usefulness. They know they artificially limit the number of jobs and put a damper on economic competiveness. Let these morons in unions that get their marching orders from Soros and the Campaing to Re-Elect Mr. Hope & Change "stand in solidarity" with the hippies on Wall Street. When their pension funds tank DON'T COME LOOKING TO THE TAXPAYERS FOR A BAILOUT YOU STUPID SUCKERS!!!
I see you got your marching orders this morning from Rush and Rupert..

You're not the only person who pays taxes; take this crap to the political forum, or get lost.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:41 AM
 
21,493 posts, read 35,630,164 times
Reputation: 10516
What crap?

I don't feel like Ford needs my help nor do the UAW workers. I say on pox on both of them. I bought a Japanese car.

If you feel that "everyone for their self" is the best way then why be a union member. I am no longer a union member and I resent the expressions that the shrinking ranks of unions is to be lamented. I don't consider myself rich by any economic measure and in terms of straight wages I know many union members that are better than I am AND have fanastic benefits. Of course these people do not work in the private sector as I do, but work for tax payer supported governmental bodies and use that to extract unsustainably high compensation AND benefits. Sad and deceptive.

Speaking of deceptive I think anyone that believes they both got paid more than the going rate AND they received pension contributions in lieu of wages has some massive innconsistencies in their argument. I suppose the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny paid for that combination higher than market rate wages and magical benefits.

Unions are anti-competitive and the kind of deals that need to be cut with politicians to get UAW workers the unrealistic salaries that the continue to receive disgust me.

There is nothing about either the Koch Brothers or any other "media villain" that convince me of the worthlessness of unions as much as looking at my property tax bill or shopping for a non-Detroit car. My Honda has 139,000 miles on, runs like a top and will probably be going strong until 200K+. It cost me only a little more than a comparable Detroit product when new but it has NEVER spent a day in the shop for other than scheduled maintenance. My last Detroit product, a really nice SUV that road well when new, was in the shop so often in its last 10K miles that coworkers joked about it.
When I look at y property tax I see that the wage increases promised to workers at all levels of government greatly exceeds the private sector.

You grab what you want I will rail against your money grubbing ways. That ain't class war fare, as we are all working slobs, it is just flat out your greed vs mine. The difference is you have the "organizers" on your side so I have to attack them and their hippie ways. You ally yourself with their moronic tactics and when your pension crashes along with the rest of Wall Street I get to say "up yours".
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:48 AM
 
7,797 posts, read 5,486,182 times
Reputation: 3334
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
What crap?

I don't feel like Ford needs my help nor do the UAW workers. I say on pox on both of them. I bought a Japanese car.

If you feel that "everyone for their self" is the best way then why be a union member. I am no longer a union member and I resent the expressions that the shrinking ranks of unions is to be lamented. I don't consider myself rich by any economic measure and in terms of straight wages I know many union members that are better than I am AND have fanastic benefits. Of course these people do not work in the private sector as I do, but work for tax payer supported governmental bodies and use that to extract unsustainably high compensation AND benefits. Sad and deceptive.

Speaking of deceptive I think anyone that believes they both got paid more than the going rate AND they received pension contributions in lieu of wages has some massive innconsistencies in their argument. I suppose the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny paid for that combination higher than market rate wages and magical benefits.

Unions are anti-competitive and the kind of deals that need to be cut with politicians to get UAW workers the unrealistic salaries that the continue to receive disgust me.

There is nothing about either the Koch Brothers or any other "media villain" that convince me of the worthlessness of unions as much as looking at my property tax bill or shopping for a non-Detroit car. My Honda has 139,000 miles on, runs like a top and will probably be going strong until 200K+. It cost me only a little more than a comparable Detroit product when new but it has NEVER spent a day in the shop for other than scheduled maintenance. My last Detroit product, a really nice SUV that road well when new, was in the shop so often in its last 10K miles that coworkers joked about it.
When I look at y property tax I see that the wage increases promised to workers at all levels of government greatly exceeds the private sector.

You grab what you want I will rail against your money grubbing ways. That ain't class war fare, as we are all working slobs, it is just flat out your greed vs mine. The difference is you have the "organizers" on your side so I have to attack them and their hippie ways. You ally yourself with their moronic tactics and when your pension crashes along with the rest of Wall Street I get to say "up yours".
Thanks.
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