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Old 10-13-2011, 01:45 PM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,620 posts, read 8,116,350 times
Reputation: 6321

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Quote:
Originally Posted by green-builder View Post
...
Businesses don't work in the area because the people have little to no money. The "dozing" thing has been done many times and is only successful for the whites who then build big houses there.
...
There's more money in "the hood" than most people realize, it just doesn't show up as taxable income, and it's the taxable income reporting that national businesses base their planning around.
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Old 10-13-2011, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Johns Island
2,499 posts, read 4,398,653 times
Reputation: 3762
Quote:
Originally Posted by green-builder View Post
Just thinking as I go along here...
There are over 4,000 abandoned homes in Englewood. There are lot's of good people looking for places to live. If all 4,000 homes were remodeled and made energy efficient, they could be sold to investors or qualified buyers. The impact on the neighborhood? Maybe there's enough positive economic impact to turn it around. Dozing the homes adds to the blight. Businesses don't work in the area because the people have little to no money. The "dozing" thing has been done many times and is only successful for the whites who then build big houses there. The fallout is only really felt by the then homeless or close to it. I've seen it happen many times in my life. It's called racism.
BTW, I'm a 67 YO white guy.
4000 X $60,000 to rehab = $240M dollars, just for the rehabbing, and I believe $60,000 per house is too low. I know you think the city will make a profit once they sell them, but with property values so low in these areas, are you sure that there is any profit to be made?

Let's say we somehow made this happen. That still leaves these areas with the problem of "one house standing for every 3 empty lots." People with the money to buy these homes won't want to live their. So now you're stuck trying to build houses onto those empty lots - your 4,000 number has now shot up dramatically.

Plus you do realize that every on of those 4,000 "abandoned" homes (and every empty lot) is in reality owned by someone, right? City of Chicago cannot just walk in and start rehabbing someone else's property. So each house requires eminent domain, or Quick-take, or some other unpopular or borderline legal method of gaining control. Which means that whatever mayor authorizes it will soon find himself un-electable.

So this approach is a non-starter, or it would have happened already.

What usually happens in these scenarios is that the city takes a few blocks by eminent domain, sells it to a developer for a dollar, and let's them take all the risk. This is the "dozing" strategy you already mentioned. If a developer thought they could make money with this strategy they would have already been whispering into Daley's (now Rahm's) ear.

It worked at University Village, but they had to destroy the ENTIRE neighborhood in one fell swoop, for it to be successful. You can't bulldoze one block in Englewood, build condos, and expect to sell them for $600,000. You need to bulldoze a "critical mass" of blight for potential buyers to be comfortable moving in. Again, that's a non-starter.

*** Even the dozing strategy is not guaranteed. This country is littered with empty lots that were sold to developers who were then unable to get financing, went bankrupt, whatever. Now there's an empty lot, owned by someone else, that the city doesn't control and can't do anything about. ***
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:36 PM
 
72 posts, read 110,280 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias View Post
There's more money in "the hood" than most people realize, it just doesn't show up as taxable income, and it's the taxable income reporting that national businesses base their planning around.
LOL! I can agree with that!
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,828,107 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
It worked at University Village, but they had to destroy the ENTIRE neighborhood in one fell swoop, for it to be successful. You can't bulldoze one block in Englewood, build condos, and expect to sell them for $600,000. You need to bulldoze a "critical mass" of blight for potential buyers to be comfortable moving in. Again, that's a non-starter.
Also, University Village had the pent-up demand for housing from professors/staff and students.

IMO what Englewood seems to be lacking is a cornerstone institution large enough to operate independent of all the evil financial temptations (ie, Aldercreatures and other municipal employees accepting bribes from gangs) and which will provide JOBS.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Uptown
1,520 posts, read 2,560,460 times
Reputation: 1236
Like i said, level massive blocks and give it back to nature in the form of forest preserve like park land.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,828,107 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleking View Post
Like i said, level massive blocks and give it back to nature in the form of forest preserve like park land.
You'll just get weed-infested lots full of trash, not to mention lose whatever taxes the banks holding the properties have to pay.

That's why converting some of these properties to urban agriculture might work, in that there will be caretakers.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Johns Island
2,499 posts, read 4,398,653 times
Reputation: 3762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
You'll just get weed-infested lots full of trash, not to mention lose whatever taxes the banks holding the properties have to pay.
Why the h*ck would this happen? Any park in the world will become a "weed infested lot full of trash," if no one is assigned to mow the grass, empty trash cans, and keep it clean. You can't create a park and then expect it to keep itself clean. Like any other park it would need to be maintained by the City of Chicago.

You think Grant Park or Lincoln Park just magically keep themselves clean? Please...
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Johns Island
2,499 posts, read 4,398,653 times
Reputation: 3762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleking View Post
Like i said, level massive blocks and give it back to nature in the form of forest preserve like park land.
I already explained why this is a non-starter. The city is not going to use eminent domain and displace thousands of residents on such a large scale, without getting some money out of the deal from developers.

This idea originated in Detroit, but even there it's a long slow process.

It's one thing to take an existing forest and "preserve" it - it's quite another to create a forest from scratch. In general this country doesn't have the "stuff" for large projects anymore - in today's world Olmstead would be laughed out of town. "Who's going to pay for this?" "I don't want to pay for a park in THEIR neighborhood." "Why do THOSE people get such a nice park? Shouldn't we put it where people who pay taxes live?"
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,828,107 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
Why the h*ck would this happen? Any park in the world will become a "weed infested lot full of trash," if no one is assigned to mow the grass, empty trash cans, and keep it clean. You can't create a park and then expect it to keep itself clean. Like any other park it would need to be maintained by the City of Chicago.

You think Grant Park or Lincoln Park just magically keep themselves clean? Please...
Grant and Lincoln Park were not simply "allowed to revert to nature" as the poster was describing.

And then there is the difference between parks along the lakefront which have tourism draws and events and empty lots with weeds and Ailanthus trees sprouting everywhere.

So getting back to earlier points about why this ain't gonna happen, try and get a single or double lot taken off the tax rolls and converted to a park.

First, you will be discouraged, due to the property tax net loss.

Second, you will be told that a community organization will be responsible for upkeep.

It can be done - but it ain't easy.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,828,107 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
It's one thing to take an existing forest and "preserve" it - it's quite another to create a forest from scratch.
Exactly.

People, we're living in what was a SWAMP. Every park you see in Chicago was created, and at great expense - you don't "create" forests, a forest is an ecosystem that takes thousands of years to develop. And no, Christmas pine tree farms do not count.
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