Midwestern High Speed Rail Network - Chicago thoughts? (Springfield, Kansas: centers, train)

[aragx6]

Originally Posted by sunnyandcloudydays

Right on - I can count on one finger the times I have traveled to Minnesota.

I can count on one finger the times traveled to Wisconsin in the last year.

Seems to me the old proposed STAR line would be beneficial.

Ridership would be a primary concern along with priorities

Great great idea but what is the practical side ...

Heck I would love to see the cost of METRA go down.. there is a priority

Then I think of Mega bus and it seems like everytime its empty..

Would people even change.. ????

Short Spur route is a good idea test it out and see how it works , before investing money that is simply not there.

From experience I don't think that's even close to accurate. It's been a minimum of 75% full each of the dozen or so times I've ridden it -- about half of those trips have been St. Louis to Chicago, the other half between KC and St. Louis.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by sunnyandcloudydays

Right on - I can count on one finger the times I have traveled to Minnesota.

Just because *you* don't go there doesn't mean it's not an extremely busy route. I added it up a few years ago, and if I remember correctly Chicago-Minneapolis was the busiest flight pair for Chicago, or at least one of the busiest. So a LOT of people do go there. There are also buses, trains and, of course, many cars going there every day.

It's really, really annoying when people fail to separate their personal anecdotes from their opinion on what is effectively public policy. Basically, not considering the larger picture is doing exactly the same thing as someone who says, "I'm not a woman, I've never been a woman, so I don't see why women should vote or be allowed to own property. Seems like a waste - we should be adding more public urinals."

There are rational reasons to not support HSR, but "I never go to Minneapolis" isn't one of them.

Originally Posted by sunnyandcloudydays

Seems to me the old proposed STAR line would be beneficial.

I can't believe you put this an a line about ridership in the same post. The STAR line is a ridiculous idea. It would make a lot more sense to expand the shoulders on a few roads and created linked BRT busway between major suburban points. Properly designed, travel times would be slightly longer but comparable, and the system would be far more flexible and cost a small fraction as much to implement.

Originally Posted by sunnyandcloudydays

Then I think of Mega bus and it seems like everytime its empty..

I don't know when/where you ride Megabus, but it's been pretty close to full every time I've taken it to Champaign.

Originally Posted by sunnyandcloudydays

Would people even change.. ????

Based on your posts, you probably won't, but experience in other cities and regions shows that, yes, many people will change.

Originally Posted by sunnyandcloudydays

Short Spur route is a good idea test it out and see how it works , before investing money that is simply not there.

A spur to where? Making a test that takes people from a major urban center to the middle of nowhere would prove nothing except that making spurs to nowhere is a waste of time and money. I wouldn't consider it a spur, but it's looking likely Minnesota may create a rail link between the Twin Cities and Rochester. That's a dedicated route, not a spur, but if it works well I think it'd meet your "test" criteria.

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Originally Posted by aragx6

From experience I don't think that's even close to accurate. It's been a minimum of 75% full each of the dozen or so times I've ridden it -- about half of those trips have been St. Louis to Chicago, the other half between KC and St. Louis.

Okay , great thanks for pointing that out.

[sunnyandcloudydays]

Originally Posted by emathias

Just because *you* don't go there doesn't mean it's not an extremely busy route. I added it up a few years ago, and if I remember correctly Chicago-Minneapolis was the busiest flight pair for Chicago, or at least one of the busiest. So a LOT of people do go there. There are also buses, trains and, of course, many cars going there every day.

It's really, really annoying when people fail to separate their personal anecdotes from their opinion on what is effectively public policy. Basically, not considering the larger picture is doing exactly the same thing as someone who says, "I'm not a woman, I've never been a woman, so I don't see why women should vote or be allowed to own property. Seems like a waste - we should be adding more public urinals."

There are rational reasons to not support HSR, but "I never go to Minneapolis" isn't one of them.



I can't believe you put this an a line about ridership in the same post. The STAR line is a ridiculous idea. It would make a lot more sense to expand the shoulders on a few roads and created linked BRT busway between major suburban points. Properly designed, travel times would be slightly longer but comparable, and the system would be far more flexible and cost a small fraction as much to implement.



I don't know when/where you ride Megabus, but it's been pretty close to full every time I've taken it to Champaign.



Based on your posts, you probably won't, but experience in other cities and regions shows that, yes, many people will change.



A spur to where? Making a test that takes people from a major urban center to the middle of nowhere would prove nothing except that making spurs to nowhere is a waste of time and money. I wouldn't consider it a spur, but it's looking likely Minnesota may create a rail link between the Twin Cities and Rochester. That's a dedicated route, not a spur, but if it works well I think it'd meet your "test" criteria.

Simple talking points, dont take it so serious.

[jwaiter]

I would love to have HSR and feel I would be inclined to take weekend trips to our nearby midwest urban areas if HSR were easy and convenient. I have friends in Detroit, Cleveland, and I enjoy Minneapolis, I have family in St Louis, I'd use it - definitely.

[aragx6]

If HSR can get close enough in time and cost to compete with the airlines I can absolutely see it being a profitable thing -- all indicators show the cost of flying to only continue to go up (and the service to go down in quality).

[rogead]

I'm a big supporter of high speed rail. However, in order to justify the massive cost, it needs to be done correctly. High speed rail can only succeed if it can become the preferred means of travel after potential passengers balance time, efficiency, and cost.

A rail line that runs a little faster than Amtrak is not high speed. In terms of total travel time, high speed rail needs to compete with air. To that end, the number of stops need to be very limited and brief, and the terminus of each line needs to be in the city center. One big advantage of high speed rail is the ability to go from downtown to downtown. This avoids the hassle, cost, and time spent getting to and from the airports at both ends of the trip.

Consider traveling from Downtown Chicago to Downtown Minneapolis: actual flight time is about an hour; but when you factor-in time spent boarding, sitting on the runways, dealing with airport security, and getting to and from the airports; you will likely spend up to four hours going from downtown to downtown. A train traveling at 160 mph...with short stops in Milwaukee, Madison, and Rochester; could come in at about the same travel time...assuming slowdowns in cities, and brief stops.

A Midwest high speed network; with Chicago as the hub... and spokes to Detroit, Cleveland, St Louis, and Minneapolis; would be an economic and cultural boon to the entire region.

[williepotatoes]

Originally Posted by emathias

Yep, that's certainly killed the airline industry and the theatre industry and the "living near the sea" industry and, come to think of it, the automobile industry (40,000 deaths a year ...) ... Oh, wait ...



Yes, because a car that drives at most 65 mph in most states is exactly like trains that operate at three times that speed in numerous countries ...



That is a perversion of Burnham.

Enjoy your high speed rail fantasies while you can.

[gomexico]

We'll see HSR, provided there is federal government support. Otherwise, no.

[DarkWolf]

HSR trains are very comfy and your not forced to sit down....the Bathrooms are also wheelchair accessible and theres a cafe...


Quiet / Relaxing car


img_2252 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mulad/4975211605/ - broken link) by Mulad (http://www.flickr.com/people/mulad/ - broken link), on Flickr

First Class


Acela Business Class Car (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cluth/120019532/ - broken link) by cluth (http://www.flickr.com/people/cluth/ - broken link), on Flickr

Business Class or Economy Class


business class on the Alcea (http://www.flickr.com/photos/savannahgrandfather/2556134201/ - broken link) by Bruce Tuten (http://www.flickr.com/people/savannahgrandfather/ - broken link), on Flickr

The Bathroom


Acela Bathroom (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_t_in_dc/2920756816/ - broken link) by Mr. T in DC (http://www.flickr.com/people/mr_t_in_dc/ - broken link), on Flickr

Cafe / Lounge Car


IMG_8053 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bvohra/5915197961/ - broken link) by bvohra (http://www.flickr.com/people/bvohra/ - broken link), on Flickr


Acela Cafe Car (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevharb/3477601850/ - broken link) by Kevin H. (http://www.flickr.com/people/kevharb/ - broken link), on Flickr

Acela Food Choices..., Food tends to be fresh due to the Shortness of the Journey


Dinner, Acela train (Wash.- NY) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dandc/3553320433/ - broken link) by Dan_DC (http://www.flickr.com/people/dandc/ - broken link), on Flickr


Acela First Class Menu (http://www.flickr.com/photos/madbuster75/2919981119/ - broken link) by Madbuster75 (http://www.flickr.com/people/madbuster75/ - broken link), on Flickr


Acela First Class Menu (http://www.flickr.com/photos/madbuster75/2920825150/ - broken link) by Madbuster75 (http://www.flickr.com/people/madbuster75/ - broken link), on Flickr

In Between the cars , most High Speed Trains are continuous with a set of automatic doors between cars


Acela Vestibule (http://www.flickr.com/photos/madbuster75/2919974687/ - broken link) by Madbuster75 (http://www.flickr.com/people/madbuster75/ - broken link), on Flickr