Chicago vs. San Francisco (Hudson, Albany: big house, title, diverse)

[beone]

Originally Posted by Drover

The reason why Chicago feels "spread out" is because it's just so much vastly larger than these cities, not because it's necessarily less dense. In two of the three comparisons you give of "less spread-out" cities, Chicago is actually MORE dense. Chicago and Boston's density is nearly identical, with Chicago being slightly more dense. As for Seattle, Boston and Chicago are almost three times as dense (and San Fran is three times as dense), so it's hard to imagine where you get the impression that Seattle fits in with this gang. Chicago is not as dense as San Fran, but at 12,500/sq.mi versus 15,000/sq.mi, I don't know that it makes that much difference. I certainly don't get how Chicago "feels" smaller than these cities when it's obviously very, very much bigger than they are.

Well, I guess it's because bigger isn't necessarily better, and cities like NYC, Boston, DC, Seattle, Los Angeles and San Diego are just a lot more interesting to me (me, not necessarily everyone) - coastal cities. I don't get the same sense of urban life in Chicago like I do in those cities (maybe not San Diego), especially SF and NYC! I'll stand by my statement that Boston, San Franciso AND Seattle feel bigger to me than Chicago, and maybe they feel bigger to me because they are more interesting to me and feel more lively to me, and as an urban person I feel a greater sense of urban dynamics and excitement in those cities than I do in Chicago.

I have never claimed, from the beginning, that any of this is fact, which you're all acting like. Everyone is going to feel different about any given place. It is entirely possible that one person may feel the 3rd biggest city in the U.S. doesn't feel so big.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by beone

It is personal perspective. Ok, here's my perspective - as someone who lived 7 years in the Twin Cities (MPLS/St. Paul), Chicago feels like a bigger MPLS/St. Paul to me. It has a bigger downtown, but the neighborhoods have the same feel as the Twin Cities.

I think maybe you've been away from the Midwest for too long. I have family in the Twin Cities so I'm up that way from time to time. And I gotta tell you, the residential neighborhoods up there are considerably less dense than their Chicago counterparts. Residential neighborhoods in the city up there compare more to DuPage County suburbs than they do to Chicago residential neighborhoods. The Twin Cities has roughly half the population density that Chicago does. I'm starting to get the impression that you don't have a very good sense of population densities.

[beone]

Originally Posted by Scribbler

You appear to have a fair amount of anti-midwestern bias, which is fine, to each, his or her own. But that doesn't make SF a bigger city than Chicago or anything (and, in the opinions of many, necessarily with any more or less appeal). I do have to disagree with you, though, on the architecture thing...Chicago's stake in world-class architecture (come on, it's the birthplace of the modern skyscraper) is pretty indisputable.

I said architecture in the neighborhoods, not downtown. In fact, I specifically said "not downtown" in the post you are referring to.

Maybe I do have a midwestern bias because I felt like I burst to life when I moved from the midwest to Seattle, with a much greater exposer to other cultures, deep political thought, and new food. Granted, that could have possibly happend had I moved to Chicago. I can't specifically lump Chicago in here, because while I visited many times, living some where is definitely different than visiting, so I'm sure I haven't had the full on live in Chicago experience.

Like I said in my first post, if I ever left San Francisco to return to the midwest, I'd end up in Chicago. If I could handle those harsh winters, it'd probably be my 3rd or 4th choice in the U.S. (with Boston). I don't want to go back to Seattle and I wouldn't want to live in D.C. or San Diego, as much as I love those cities.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by beone

Well, I guess it's because bigger isn't necessarily better, and cities like NYC, Boston, DC, Seattle, Los Angeles and San Diego are just a lot more interesting to me (me, not necessarily everyone) - coastal cities.

So wait -- a city that is more interesting to you is "bigger." You have very strange criteria for what constitutes a "big" city or a "small" city.

[beone]

Originally Posted by Drover

So wait -- a city that is more interesting to you is "bigger." You have very strange criteria for what constitutes a "big" city or a "small" city.

Exactly. Because, I feel I am more exposed to greater political awareness, more diverse culture, and more intersting people than found in the midwest. Period!

End of discussion. Peace out. I have to actually work today

[Drover]

Cool, Can I play the "let's make up definitions" game too? San Francisco is more Midwestern than Chicago is because I like their parks better!

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by beone

Exactly. Because, I feel I am more exposed to greater political awareness, more diverse culture, and more intersting people than found in the midwest. Period!

End of discussion. Peace out. I have to actually work today

Right, the enlightened cry of the bleeding heart California liberal

The only "culture" I found in San Francisco was divided between the utterly whitebread suburbanites who commuted 2 hours every day to work or the inclusive Chinese who were very upfront about white people not being welcome in the inner reaches of Chinatown. Oh, and the Mexicans pretending not to be Mexican.

NorCal in general is too pretentious to be interesting. SoCal is where the scene is at.

[Scribbler]

Originally Posted by beone

Maybe I do have a midwestern bias because I felt like I burst to life when I moved from the midwest to Seattle, with a much greater exposer to other cultures, deep political thought, and new food. Granted, that could have possibly happend had I moved to Chicago.

Hmm, y'think?

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by Scribbler

Hmm, y'think?

He's fitting in well in San Francisco-- the passive aggressive statements and then the immediate excuse for flight.

[Scribbler]

I particularly like the game of bashing/blanket statements about what it's like living in a town one's never lived in. Particularly pretentious.