NATO summit protests (Chicago, Simpson: credit, campers, tax)

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Unfortunately, this is not like the Vietnam era marches and demonstrations. Those actually somewhat worked. I am way against the war, and most wars, but anybody who thinks you can get out of an area in a *snap* when there's thousands of troops there is clearly mistaken. It takes time to get out and finish "business" you're already in discussion about. It takes a little bit of time. Just because nobody is getting out NOW doesn't mean nobody is listening either.

Merit counts for something, but it depends on how you go about it. Saying you stood outside and walked doesn't mean anything is going to get done. This again goes on what I talked about before. Older people in government and business are going to be more apt to listen to you when you present yourselves as actual semi well kept intelligently speaking people. It's a fact of life in these days. Yes, it's not a good thing, but if you want them to listen, you have to play the game. Do you really think most wealthy CEOs are going to listen to a scraggly dude in a bandana and dreads? It doesn't mean that guy doesn't have a point. His point could easily be better than anybody else's, but it's all in the presentation. Most people in these positions are going to subconsciously not respect you as much if they see that. TRUST ME

The thing is, the scraggly guys did get their point across in the bigger picture. It worked - although I'd be the first to agree that it did largely as the vast majority of the protesters were indeed well behaved, those black bloc ninnies were seen as the instigators they were.

But while we're talking about the wookie, see this:

Activists spread photos of undercovers by Internet - Chicago Sun-Times

What will people say if & when the truth comes out that the police did in fact entrap these kids and goad them on to do things they would never have considered otherwise? I call that 100% unethical and a terrible example of policing, and McCarthy has a screw loose to think that protesters should just sit back and allow undercovers to be invited into their homes to stir up trouble.

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

Why paint with such a broad brush?

The fact is you prove the protesters' point.

You're against the wars but you, personally, aren't doing anything about it, and in fact are counterproductively insulting the people who decided showing their support for peace was an important act.

Did you make paper airplanes on Monday? No? Then you are part of the war machine!

[gomexico]

Originally Posted by Chi-town Native

I do agree the cops did a good job, but there was a cost all right, dozens were shot in the neighborhoods last weekend, and I think 6 or 7 died.

Murder, shootings ... serious crimes ... declined by double-digit percentage figures during the NATO summit. Maybe we should have more, and crimes will continue to be reduced. I think you're off-base on this criticism/observation.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

Did you make paper airplanes on Monday? No? Then you are part of the war machine!

Well, duh. Are you suggesting I've said otherwise? Anyone who pays taxes (paper airplane skills aside) is part of the war machine, that's the whole point/problem.

Americans do not feel the government is listening to what we want - look at polls regarding Afghanistan:

Afghanistan

[linicx]

Our duly elected US Congress has not listened to, learned from, or remembered who put them in office since World War II ended. It is unlikely it will change until we the people stop listening to party blather and start thinking independently . Politics is nothing more than a circus without the Big Top. .

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by linicx

Our duly elected US Congress has not listened to, learned from, or remembered who put them in office since World War II ended. It is unlikely it will change until we the people stop listening to party blather and start thinking independently . Politics is nothing more than a circus without the Big Top. .

True in very large regard. Once upon a time politicians were of a slightly higher caliber:

Eisenhower's Military-Industry Complex Warning, 50 Years Later : NPR

[linicx]

Maybe. I listen to the windbags all, and wish they had taken lessons from Phineas T.. If nothing else it would be a lot more fun listening to the lies. One can promise the moon on a platter but the reality is with a Congress deeply embedded in a sand box fight over a pail and shovel, it becomes the center of media posturing, and we the people get zip.

[j_cat]

Originally Posted by 8loody

Peaceful? You are so naive.

Do elaborate.

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

I'm a gay liberal who grew up in a college town. I hate the right for the most part. Given this situation though, I'm 100% with the police. This is a no-brainer.

With friends like these, the left has no need for enemies.

[55degrees]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

What does this have to do with left or right? There was a situation, people blatantly watched it on TV and it's pretty obvious what was happening.

I'm a gay liberal who grew up in a college town. I hate the right for the most part. Given this situation though, I'm 100% with the police. This is a no-brainer. I was quite shocked at how well the police handled this weekend, and have a lot more respect for them than I had last Thursday, mostly due to the fact I was downtown Friday through Monday and interacted and saw things first hand.

I am not against the cops or anything. My dismay about this thread has more to do with how ALL the protesters are being portrayed as crazy people or violent people or hippies or lazies when that isn't the case. Most of them were people who were against the war for various reasons--thinking they are unjust, thinking that they are funneling money away from domestic programs, etc. If we are sending our troops (who aren't exactly allowed to dissent very easily) over to die for these causes, shouldn't there be people who are willing to protest against them being sent to die for stupid reasons? Yes, I'm sure a business man in a suit will have more sway over a politician than a protester, but it's nice that other people want to take a stand as well.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by j_cat

With friends like these, the left has no need for enemies.

hehe