Need some help clarifying areas of Chicago (Fulton, Ashland: real estate, hotel)

[stephen431]

We're having a discussion about stadium locations in a thread in the Cincinnati forum, and a guy was giving the point that Chicago doesn't have any downtown stadiums. I said Soldier Field is close enough to downtown that it's basically a downtown stadium because it's close to Loop, it's in South Loop. I said it's close enough to downtown that it's basically a downtown stadium. He says Soldier Field doesn't count.

Well, that started a back and forth about what is or isn't considered "Loop". He's saying the Loop is the L, and I'm saying it's mostly the area between the river, the lake, and Roosevelt.

Could someone help clarify?

Disappointment - Cincinnati: is this really it?

[Vlajos]

I think most Chicagoans would consider Soldier Field "downtown". No other stadiums would be though.

[stephen431]

So what is considered "Loop" and "South Loop"?

[jwaiter]

Technically, the Loop is the area defined by the loop of L trains around the city center, and that is the core of downtown, however, many locals use a more relaxed interprtaion of "downtown" and Soldier Field is "downtown" by most peoples standards. Heck, Rogers Park is downtown if you live in some outer burbs.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by jwaiter

Heck, Rogers Park is downtown if you live in some outer burbs.

Yep, and that drives me nuts.

[Jandur]

Depends on how you define downtown. Soldier Field is def. downtown. The Loop doesn't define "downtown" officially or unofficially. Downtown is a relative term 90% of the time. To people in the suburbs Wrigley is downtown. To people in the city not so much.

[emathias]

So you know what experience supports my definitions, I've worked in the Loop for over 17 years. I've lived within walking distance of the Loop for 12 of those years.

Most people I know consider Soldier Field to be downtown. A few consider the United Center to be downtown. Nobody considers the rest of the stadiums to be downtown, though.

The Loop proper is, of course, the area inside the elevated tracks.

The Loop as most Chicagoans use the term, however, is the area bounded by the River, Michigan and Congress. *Some* but not all people also include the primarily office and hotel blocks east of Michigan, north of Randolph, south of the River, west of Columbus.

I don't know anyone local who considers the Loop to extend to Roosevelt. Some might accept to Harrison, but not to Roosevelt.

Part of the confusion may be that locally the terms "South Loop" and "West Loop" do not mean "the south part of the Loop" or "the west part of the Loop," they mean distinct areas to the south or to the west of the Loop.

The West Loop has somewhat less distinct definitions. The general consensus probably defines it as west of the River, south of Kinzie or Fulton, north of the Eisenhower (I-290) and west to either the Kennedy (I-90/94) or Halsted. Some people consider the West Loop to go to Ashland, but in the past 5-7 years more people consider the area west of Halsted to be a distinct area called "West Loop Gate". No one that I know consideres the United Center to be in the West Loop though a few ambitious real estate agents might call that area still the West Loop Gate.

The South Loop also has somewhat less distinct definitions. The general consensus is that the South Loop starts at Congress and goes to at least Roosevelt. Personally I consider the South Loop to be Congress to Roosevelt, although a few people push it all the way to 18th Street. People like me who say it stops at Roosevelt consider the area south of Roosevelt to 18th or Cermak or, sometimes, even as far as the Stevenson (I-55) to be the "Near South Side". The area east of Michigan and south of Roosevelt to 18th is considered Central Station, a planned development built on the site of the old Central Station railroad terminal. The semi-private blocks bounded by State, Clark, 16th Street and Polk are Dearborn Park, the first primarily residential development in the South Loop area that kicked things off. Technically, the part north of Roosevelt is Dearborn Park, and the part south is Dearborn Park 2, but I don't think people make that distinction. The portion of the South Loop between Polk, Van Buren, Clark and Dearborn is generally known as Printers Row.

Adding to the confusion is that there isn't really a "North Loop," although when people use that term, they usually mean the area between Lake Street, Columbus and the River.

North of the River between roughly Wabash and Chicago Ave is the River North neighborhood. The western edge, along Larrabee where there's a lot of new development, north to about Oak Street, is often also considered River North. East of about Wabash and north of Chicago Ave is the Gold Coast. North of Division and west of Lasalle is Old Town. The area east of the River, south of Division, north of Chicago Ave, and west of either State is sort of disputed. Some consider parts Old Town, or the Gold Coast or River North. It often ends up just called by the official Community Area "Near North Side" that officially includes all those areas.

North of the River, east of St. Clair St and south of Chicago Ave is Streeterville. The blocks on either side of Michigan Avenue north of the River are just considered part of the Michigan Ave or Mag Mile corridor and as such their own sort of neighborhood.

People who don't consider things east of Michigan to be part of the Loop often consider that to be the East Loop. The mostly residential portion east of Columbus, though, is marketed as the "New East Side" which is a little confusing to old time Chicagoans because there is an "East Side" neighborhood on the far South Side of the city that has no relation. Another name for the office/hotel portion of this area is "Illinois Center," although some people find that too easily confused with the State of Illinois building in the center of the Loop.

Below is a map I made that helps illustrate some of the areas.

[chet everett]

eMathias:

Impressive level of detail, seriously. I have worked for commerical real estate firms where none of the people use as much precision in describing the various part of Chicago near to the Loop.

As far as sports venues I will say that to folks even in inner ring suburbs I have heard folks have a conversation like "I went to a ballgame Saturday afternoon" "Where?" "Downtown" "Sox or Cubs?" "Southside"... but as far as that being precise? Nope EVERYONE knows Wrigley is well north of "downtown" and the Sox play far away from downtown in a place that is "southside"

[Attrill]

As others noted "downtown" is a very subjective term, and it generally doesn't match up neatly with neighborhood boundaries. I usually interpret "downtown" to mean a city's central business district. For Chicago that means Division to Roosevelt, and the Lake to Halsted (as defined by the City of Chicago).

[Just1Fan]

Originally Posted by stephen431

...it's close enough to downtown that it's basically a downtown stadium.

You're absolutely correct - Soldier Field is as close to downtown as one can possibly get.

Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference ~ Mark Twain