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I know racism when I experience it. It's funny that you are trying to make up all these different reasons and excuses to explain something very simple.
Why would you assume that I haven't been to New York? Is it because blacks supposedly don't travel? Anyway, New Yorkers aren't less friendly than Chicagoans from my experiences. They are more upfront though.
There has been anything and everything written to discount racism in Lakeview.
The sad thing is there is nothing to gain by refusing to accept reality.
I also agree with you NYC is a friendly place. Without a rational mind one can't see that.
I know racism when I experience it. It's funny that you are trying to make up all these different reasons and excuses to explain something very simple.
Why would you assume that I haven't been to New York? Is it because blacks supposedly don't travel? Anyway, New Yorkers aren't less friendly than Chicagoans from my experiences. They are more upfront though.
You see you proved my point. I said something benign and you jumped to the conclusion that I have (insultingly) accused you of not going to New York because "blacks dont travel" Please remember that YOU put that thought out there - I did not. I believe your reaction proves that you are contributing to the problem of this racism being an issue for you in lakeview.
But I will explain what I meant by the NY comment. It is not for the reason you assumed. It is because of the culture of NY City being a colder environment socially than here in the midwest. If you think people are tough in chicago, it will be worse in NY. Your adjective "upfront" will suffice for my example. I have not personally been to NYC but I have heard that life can be tougher there as needs to be compared to the more genteel slower way of life in New orelans for example, (The Big Easy) and that is not an insult as I don't mean New Orleans are more stupider (slower), but they slow down their pace, ok?
And I believe some New Yorkers have different manners compared to the people in New Orleans for example, where life is slower and more genteel and softer and more freindly. (traditional Southern Hospitality) (which could be from the humidity making people slow down a bit); ...I think based on what I have heard about the differnces in the various parts of the USA, that the Midwest has a bit of coldness but not as much as NYC, but it is also not as casual as Atlanta or the Florida Keys. I may not be using the correct term as I would like to describe people from up east, but its a more direct, colder, less friendly, less genteel, way of carrying themselves - ie. the wife of Newt Gingrich comes to mind. And a boss I had.
Let me clarify something, when i say NYC citizens are tougher, i belive it is because they have to be. manhattan is a big city. Life is faster there. They have things to do, places to be, they have to be faster to meet the challenges, 911 happened and it made them stronger, so i'm not saying its a good or bad thing that they are the way they are, its just the way they adapted to the environment and its just fine for them. I really cannot explain such a thing in a short couple of paragraphs, but there is a point I am trying to make. I hope it is understood in the spirit I meant it. Though I have my doubts because it is hard to make a person believe something else other than what they believe - when they go around with a chip on their shoulder and have made up their mind and nothing will change waht they wnat to believe.
Hey aside from that, even if there is racism in these places, what are ya going to do about it? Are you part of the problem or part of the solution? And what ideally would you like each citizen of lakeview do or act or think in order to make anyone feel more welcome?
Last edited by ChicagoMeO; 09-02-2012 at 08:37 PM..
You see you proved my point. I said something benign and you jumped to the conclusion that I have (insultingly) accused you of not going to New York because "blacks dont travel" Please remember that YOU put that thought out there - I did not. I believe your reaction proves that you are contributing to the problem of this racism being an issue for you in lakeview.
But I will explain what I meant by the NY comment. It is not for the reason you assumed. It is because of the culture of NY City being a colder environment socially than here in the midwest. If you think people are tough in chicago, it will be worse in NY. Your adjective "upfront" will suffice for my example. I have not personally been to NYC but I have heard that life can be tougher there as needs to be compared to the more genteel slower way of life in New orelans for example, (The Big Easy) and that is not an insult as I don't mean New Orleans are more stupider (slower), but they slow down their pace, ok?
And I believe some New Yorkers have different manners compared to the people in New Orleans for example, where life is slower and more genteel and softer and more freindly. (traditional Southern Hospitality) (which could be from the humidity making people slow down a bit); ...I think based on what I have heard about the differnces in the various parts of the USA, that the Midwest has a bit of coldness but not as much as NYC, but it is also not as casual as Atlanta or the Florida Keys. I may not be using the correct term as I would like to describe people from up east, but its a more direct, colder, less friendly, less genteel, way of carrying themselves - ie. the wife of Newt Gingrich comes to mind. And a boss I had.
Let me clarify something, when i say NYC citizens are tougher, i belive it is because they have to be. manhattan is a big city. Life is faster there. They have things to do, places to be, they have to be faster to meet the challenges, 911 happened and it made them stronger, so i'm not saying its a good or bad thing that they are the way they are, its just the way they adapted to the environment and its just fine for them. I really cannot explain such a thing in a short couple of paragraphs, but there is a point I am trying to make. I hope it is understood in the spirit I meant it. Though I have my doubts because it is hard to make a person believe something else other than what they believe - when they go around with a chip on their shoulder and have made up their mind and nothing will change waht they wnat to believe.
Hey aside from that, even if there is racism in these places, what are ya going to do about it? Are you part of the problem or part of the solution? And what ideally would you like each citizen of lakeview do or act or think in order to make anyone feel more welcome?
Well, it just seemed odd to me that you assumed that I'd never been to New York. Another odd thing is that you know a lot about New York and New Yorkers in general for someone who's never set foot in that city. Some of your generalizations about the place are really funny. But you are right, it's a faster paced city that's much larger, more densely populated and more 'active' than Chicago.
Well, it just seemed odd to me that you assumed that I'd never been to New York. Another odd thing is that you know a lot about New York and New Yorkers in general for someone who's never set foot in that city. Some of your generalizations about the place are really funny. But you are right, it's a faster paced city that's much larger, more densely populated and more 'active' than Chicago.
Yes I am aware of some things about NY even though I have not been there. But thats off topic for this thread so we dont have to go there in depth.
No I didn't assume you went to NY, I was making a point using a hypothetical situation or a metaphor or something. Well I'm glad you understand my point.
I'd suggest people consider that the terms racism and bigotry are related but are not interchangeable.
There is a difference - racism is institutionalized bigotry. Red lining, Jim Crow, "separate but equal," laws/policies are examples of how a society takes bigoted attitudes and make them into the law of the land.
Black people can be bigoted- but given their voting numbers those attitudes have not been institutionalized into law. White people otoh...
If people are free to live where they like, and have the funds to do so, don't see a problem with them staying with their own - whether that be black, white, Chinese - some are just more comfortable that way. Forced diversity only creates resentment.
Given my previous experience for what constitutes as "racism" that leads to "segregation", I would be inclined to say that she is in fact harboring racist feelings, or on a more benign/ignorant level, "hay shaker" feelings (if previous posters are to be believed).
It doesn't matter that the area is seen as unfit for young children and their parents to safely go to the studio.
It doesn't matter that corners around the studio are gang hangouts.
It doesn't matter that corners around the studio are used as open air drug markets.
It doesn't matter if the proprietor thinks the area is unsafe to do business.
What does matter, according to some people in this thread, is the fact that she is choosing to move her studio (willful segregation) to a place that is more conducive to her business' prosperity and her clients' safety, and that is apparently what is wrong with Chicago and why it is so segregated.
I would also go out on a limb and say that some of those posters are going to call this line of thinking, "absurd", "stupid", or "ignorant". Then I'm forced to think, "What if this was a white woman, not a black woman, doing this for the same exact reasons as stated in the article?" Would those people then think that the owner of the studio was trying to segregate her business and clients from a particular race, not the social and economical issues involved in such a decision?
Given my previous experience for what constitutes as "racism" that leads to "segregation", I would be inclined to say that she is in fact harboring racist feelings, or on a more benign/ignorant level, "hay shaker" feelings (if previous posters are to be believed).
It doesn't matter that the area is seen as unfit for young children and their parents to safely go to the studio.
It doesn't matter that corners around the studio are gang hangouts.
It doesn't matter that corners around the studio are used as open air drug markets.
It doesn't matter if the proprietor thinks the area is unsafe to do business.
What does matter, according to some people in this thread, is the fact that she is choosing to move her studio (willful segregation) to a place that is more conducive to her business' prosperity and her clients' safety, and that is apparently what is wrong with Chicago and why it is so segregated.
I would also go out on a limb and say that some of those posters are going to call this line of thinking, "absurd", "stupid", or "ignorant". Then I'm forced to think, "What if this was a white woman, not a black woman, doing this for the same exact reasons as stated in the article?" Would those people then think that the owner of the studio was trying to segregate her business and clients from a particular race, not the social and economical issues involved in such a decision?
What do you think?
I think she has the right to do whatever she wants - it's her business and that is every right of every citizen - without being judged. She's gonna be called an uncle Tom if she is leaving "da hood". I think she is doing what is best to her advantage.
I really have been thinking about this thread, unfortunately, and it has gotten me down. People seem to be convinced of their own feelings no matter how hard I tried to be reasonable and present - what I heard and what I know - but alas, it is going to deaf ears. I think people are going to want to believe what they want - whether it is true - i.e. its all subjective.
What gets me is that people have double standards and are in denial. One race says "there are no ___ racists (of their same skin color) meanwhile using the N word and perfectly justifying it. Which is a double standard. There are people who are racists and who say oh no im not a racist because my color cant be because we are the underdog. Double standards again!
So thats what i have to say about it for now. Meanwhile these same complainers are offering no solutions. So whats the answer? hey I do believe there are people that prefer not to have particular people in their neighborhood - legitmate reasons or not. hey but whatcha gonna do? You cant force them not to feel that way. They have reasons.. maybe they got mugged that a person of that skin color and survival instincts will be wary of when they see a person of a similar face. its the way it is. just be responsible for your behavior and let everyone else be. or get involved in CAPS or social organizations, or Hull House, or pet shelters, or something to make a difference.
But I really hate when people tear down a whole neighborhood and crucify everyone - when I know better than that.
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