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Old 03-12-2014, 09:14 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,921,999 times
Reputation: 18723

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein View Post
Where does the lottery money go? I thought that was all supposed to go to the school fund.

Through the well known "magical accounting" that is practiced in Springpatch any money that the legislature budgeted for schools get recycled back into general funds of the State when revenues flow in from Lotto receipts. This means that all little "pet projects" of the legislators are essentially funded by Lotto dollars, yet another reason to avoid that sucker's game!
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Old 03-13-2014, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,824,967 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Special Ed tends to consume lots of resources on a "per child" basis in all school districts but the details of which kids are the most "expensive" are rarely other than those with the most profoundly heart breaking needs -- kids with severe traumatic injuries, those that suffer from major physcial impairments, cerebal palsy, the kind of things that really anybody just tears up about when they look at their own healthy kids....

I doubt there would be any broad support to cut off funding for these kinds of things and these are far and away the majority of students recieving services past 18.
I would like to see stats if you have 'em. Again, my first-hand and thus anecdotal observation, but as a sub I saw a LOT of different classes & it was pretty clear that behavioral problem/disruptive kids (labeled as ADHD in most cases) were the majority.

Does CPS not have more specialized facilities for kids with the kinds of severe disabilities you're describing? I guess that wouldn't surprise me, but how depressing.
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,824,967 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
Through the well known "magical accounting" that is practiced in Springpatch any money that the legislature budgeted for schools get recycled back into general funds of the State when revenues flow in from Lotto receipts. This means that all little "pet projects" of the legislators are essentially funded by Lotto dollars, yet another reason to avoid that sucker's game!
I think you could probably run for governor on a Lotto ticket. As in, who the &^%$#! actually audits that program? I've read multiple stories over the years about how organized crime has infiltrated various lottery systems...
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:13 AM
 
4,874 posts, read 10,007,274 times
Reputation: 1992
Maybe the solution is for Chicago to openly state that high school admission is not guaranteed. Upon graduating from middle school OR upon failing a second year in middle school, a student MUST take an entrance exam. Failure on this entrance exam means the student is assigned to a "basic school"
* Students will NOT take state accountability tests, and they shouldn't
* A student cannot leave until he/she has competency in basic subjects - he/she is only permitted to enter high school upon passing basic subjects

Even better, CPS could make "Babysitting Academies" where students with the worst discipline can be assigned. There's no pretense, it's all about babysitting. They do take state accountability tests, but teachers aren't penalized if they do poorly
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:21 AM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,921,999 times
Reputation: 18723
The Lotto stuff is easy to document. Folks have made actual fliers about the shell game: http://www.iasb.com/pdf/lottery.pdf

The ISBE does produce quite a bit of info about the funds associated with Special Education. Much of it is terribly difficult to wade through. Here is a typical summary of what is funded: http://www.isbe.net/funding/pdf/state_sped_funding.pdf Even in that short document it should be clear that there are all kinds of hard-to-fathom expenses associated with things like children that are under "guardianship" of the state and similar costly arrangements that are not common outside Chicago.

Don't get me wrong, in total numbers there are far more kids getting just a little bit of service in "regular" schools from local special education teachers. There are however some children with HUGE needs and they often do end up in private facilities with the money coming from public funds. These are the most expensive situations -- some of these things really end up costly far more per year than it would cost to go to a top tier college because the whole cost of all the special transportation and feeding assitance and other enormously costly "life aids" all go into the total bill.
Nonpublic Special Education Facilities
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,824,967 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The Lotto stuff is easy to document. Folks have made actual fliers about the shell game: http://www.iasb.com/pdf/lottery.pdf

The ISBE does produce quite a bit of info about the funds associated with Special Education. Much of it is terribly difficult to wade through. Here is a typical summary of what is funded: http://www.isbe.net/funding/pdf/state_sped_funding.pdf Even in that short document it should be clear that there are all kinds of hard-to-fathom expenses associated with things like children that are under "guardianship" of the state and similar costly arrangements that are not common outside Chicago.

Don't get me wrong, in total numbers there are far more kids getting just a little bit of service in "regular" schools from local special education teachers. There are however some children with HUGE needs and they often do end up in private facilities with the money coming from public funds. These are the most expensive situations -- some of these things really end up costly far more per year than it would cost to go to a top tier college because the whole cost of all the special transportation and feeding assitance and other enormously costly "life aids" all go into the total bill.
Nonpublic Special Education Facilities
I take your points, but I still question whether CPS - ostensibly designed to provide a "regular" K-12 education - should be the vehicle to provide educational services to difficult and unusual cases involving people after they are old enough to serve in the armed forces, vote, and buy booze.

Or put it this way - how about we focus on every kid who goes through CPS being able to read, write and perform basic mathematics before they leave.

What I'm essentially describing is the unintended consequence of CPS becoming a de facto "safety net" for society.

You can certainly argue that if they don't, who will. But that conversation should be had City-wide, not school by school.

And people need to understand that this is a large part of CPS's struggles.

It isn't the quality (or pay or pensions) of the teachers, it is that the system has demands placed on it by its citizens that its "competition" school systems in the suburbs would never dream of handling.
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Tri-Taylor
5,014 posts, read 9,387,810 times
Reputation: 3982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
It's possible things have changed, but a few misconceptions I have heard over the years & experienced personally:

1. COS is underfunded, in absolute terms.

On a per-student basis, CPS gets a good amount of money. The problem is the system is large and inefficient and not nearly enough goes to hire teachers or other immediate impacts.

CPS is burdened with ancient building stock which costs a fortune to heat/cool, not to mention chock full of asbestos and mold which needs remediation.

Then there's the billing... they pay their bills so late that suppliers upcharge them, knowing they will be out of pocket for months.

And then there's the busing. Oh my god, it is a fortune they have to spend on this - gas, maintenance, and bus driver salaries.

2. North Side (or Lincoln Park, or South Loop, etc) schools get more money.

That's a load of b.s. They all get the same amount, it's based on attendance. This is why the poorer areas with half empty buildings are so screwed. They're paying for upkeep and staffing for square footage they can't use. Even a half empty school still needs rooms to be cleaned, secured, checked by security, etc.

I could go on, but I'm sure I made my point.
You have and I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I understand CPS spends a lot of money per pupil, and I understand, to quote the immortal Carlos Zambrano, they stinks in terms of test scores.

Since some people may not understand what in the hell I'm talking about when I say we need to reverse the spending model, let me say, crystal clear, that money is not, not, not, not, not the answer to the problem standing alone!

You need to spend money BUT the way it is spent has to be revamped, in a radical manner that's probably not going to be popular in some circles (i.e. like people who will compare effective SEED schools to Nazi concentration camps, see Post No. 143 above). CPS spends a lot on students despite the inefficiencies you cite but it's not effective, because they're not using the proper models to reach kids whose parents do not engage them and who live in environments decidedly not conducive to education.

As to the infrastructure problems that exist, those are constants that have to be dealt with in some form or other by all operations that must maintain buildings and need services to operate. A separate issue from the educational aspect of it.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Nort Seid
5,288 posts, read 8,824,967 times
Reputation: 2459
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67 View Post
You have and I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I understand CPS spends a lot of money per pupil, and I understand, to quote the immortal Carlos Zambrano, they stinks in terms of test scores.

Since some people may not understand what in the hell I'm talking about when I say we need to reverse the spending model, let me say, crystal clear, that money is not, not, not, not, not the answer to the problem standing alone!

You need to spend money BUT the way it is spent has to be revamped, in a radical manner that's probably not going to be popular in some circles (i.e. like people who will compare effective SEED schools to Nazi concentration camps, see Post No. 143 above). CPS spends a lot on students despite the inefficiencies you cite but it's not effective, because they're not using the proper models to reach kids whose parents do not engage them and who live in environments decidedly not conducive to education.

As to the infrastructure problems that exist, those are constants that have to be dealt with in some form or other by all operations that must maintain buildings and need services to operate. A separate issue from the educational aspect of it.
Oh no, Carlos has achieved immortality? Aye caramba!

I totally hear you on the rest.
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,697,699 times
Reputation: 29966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi-town Native View Post
Oh no, Carlos has achieved immortality? Aye caramba!

I totally hear you on the rest.
Zambrano and Gatorade will be linked together for the ages.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:20 PM
 
6 posts, read 6,256 times
Reputation: 10
Arne Duncan and them at the headquarters need more help, teachers need training The Lord will help them one day. It will be perfect, more diplomcy
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