America's Best Hipster Neighborhoods (Chicago: to live in, move, eat)

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by quigboto

My experience with hipsters is pretty much the opposite. I have many friends whom I would consider hipsters, even though I'm quite a bit older than most of them. I don't find them, in general, to be unapproachable or unfriendly to those outside of their crowd or scene (or whatever you want to call it)

BTW, I have never met a hipster who actually self identifies as a hipster.

Agreed on both counts. The whole problem with the term "hipster" is that no one identifies themselves as one, and the people who use it as derogatory term apply it indiscriminately to wide variety of people. 5-10 years ago the term could possibly have been used to accurately describe guys with thick glasses and tight jeans riding fixies in Williamsburg or Greenpoint, but other than that the term is just randomly applied to anyone in their 20's who isn't wearing a polo shirt or a Cubs hat.

In terms of anything being counter-cultural anymore, I'm not sure it's even possible. There are certainly a lot of sub-cultures, and there is certainly an anti-consumerist/advertising streak in may 20 somethings today (understandable so), but there is no coherent culture to be counter to anymore. Even the idea of a general American culture in the 60's was pretty much manufactured by the growth of television and advertising. It didn't really reflect much of the country.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Attrill

Agreed on both counts. The whole problem with the term "hipster" is that no one identifies themselves as one, and the people who use it as derogatory term apply it indiscriminately to wide variety of people. 5-10 years ago the term could possibly have been used to accurately describe guys with thick glasses and tight jeans riding fixies in Williamsburg or Greenpoint, but other than that the term is just randomly applied to anyone in their 20's who isn't wearing a polo shirt or a Cubs hat.

Bingo. That about sums up the silliness of it.

[Toroid]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Urbanist a far more meaningful and less derogatory term than "hipster," and is commonly used enough that it's rather bizarre to accuse someone of trolling for merely mentioning it, don't you think?

Why is the term hipster derogatory? If you self-identify with everything that is associated with the term hipster then you're a hipster. Worse yet the mere presence of the hipsters draws in douchebags and yuppies who sterilize the area that they've made such a great place isn't derogatory? I'll self-identify as a yuppy, probably a douchebag to hipsters, although I fall directly into the "creative class" demographic.

I honestly have never heard the term urbanist used by anyone who isn't in city planning or similar. I was born in the city and lived there until I was almost 30 before leaving; not once had I heard anyone there use that term to describe themselves. I prefer to consider myself by the derogatory term of Chicagoan.

[tallahasseehero1]

Hipster is a ridiculously hard term to define. A lot of people used to define them by the music they listened to or the way they dressed, but a lot of that has become more mainstream, even young professionals are dressing "hipster" when they are not at work. A good deal of independent music has become very popular.

Most young people are at least somewhat liberal, at least socially. Most people Iconsider hipster arent rally anti capitalist, maybe anti corporate corruption, but isnt that what most people are?

A good deal of people appreciate art and have some unique tastes.

Some of the most pretentious of those we would refer to as hipster, like to think they are unique and dont fall for advertisements and the are "outside the system." That said many wear similar clothing brands as eachother. Their decisions to buy these brands are definitely influenced by how these brands market themselves.

[quigboto]

I like to call my hipster friends "Beardos" because they all have that same look: beard , thick glasses, and flannel/ironic t-shirt. They take a lot of guff from me because there are plenty of things about me that they can (and do) make fun of too (And I can't grow a beard, dammit!!) . My goodness, though, the girls are all so pretty. I wish they were this cute when I was a young scenester.
End of the day though, they're no more or less pretentious than I, or any of my friends at the time, were at that age. Hell, it's actually kind of fun/refreshing to be reminded of the aesthetic that I used to embody (and still do to some degree) when I was young and dumb and knew everything. I love youth and stupidity and the feeling that the world is a thing to be conquered. We may let that go as we get older, but it's that stupidity and reckless energy that propels some folks on to great things. I can get behind that...

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by Toroid

Why is the term hipster derogatory?

Why is it derogatory? It's primarily used in a derogatory manner, so it's a derogatory term by definition. I'll leave the "why" up to the philosophers.

Originally Posted by Toroid

If you self-identify with everything that is associated with the term hipster

And what would those things be, exactly? Wearing glasses? Shopping at thrift stores? Wearing tight pants? Listening to live music? Riding a bicycle? Using the CTA? Reading books? Having facial hair? Going to non-sports bars? At a certain point you're describing nearly any young middle class person in the city, which is why the term as it is now used is meaningless.

Originally Posted by Toroid

I honestly have never heard the term urbanist used by anyone who isn't in city planning or similar.

In other words, people whose job it is to define and describe populations in a meaningful and non-insulting way? Yes, those are the people who use the term. Nobody said the term urbanist is in widespread use, just that perhaps it would make more sense (compared to "hipster") if it was, and that it's used enough that it's ridiculous to say that someone is trolling simply because they state a preference for it.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

And what would those things be, exactly? Wearing glasses? Shopping at thrift stores? Wearing tight pants? Listening to live music? Riding a bicycle? Using the CTA? Reading books? Having facial hair? Going to non-sports bars? At a certain point you're describing nearly any young middle class person in the city, which is why the term as it is now used is meaningless.

Yep, and as others have mentioned, no one identifies themselves as "hipster", and almost anyone I know would take offense to being called a hipster. Just look at the posts in this thread - has anyone stepped up to say "I'm a hipster"?

[quigboto]

I'm too old to be a hipster.

[jwaiter]

Originally Posted by Attrill

...In terms of anything being counter-cultural anymore, I'm not sure it's even possible. There are certainly a lot of sub-cultures, and there is certainly an anti-consumerist/advertising streak in may 20 somethings today (understandable so), but there is no coherent culture to be counter to anymore. ...

This is an interesting idea that I'd not really thought of... it could be true and the reason why we see the counter culture fading away, not attracting the large numbers of youth like it used to.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by jwaiter

This is an interesting idea that I'd not really thought of... it could be true and the reason why we see the counter culture fading away, not attracting the large numbers of youth like it used to.

I think there needs to be a life-and-death unifying cultural element like the Vietnam draft to be "countered" to really get the youth masses up in arms.

I think the dilemma today's hipsters face is that they aren't really countering anything. They aren't seen as politically active, or especially progressive, pursuing social justice, etc. (edit - I should note this my take on how they are perceived, there are definitely very politically active young folks, these people are very cool & committed: http://chicagovotes.com/)

What they really seem stuck with is the reputation of being the first or second wave of gentrifiers.

So communities of color see their arrival not as that of people with shared interests, but rather as a foreshadowing of higher rents and property taxes and ultimately, eviction.

Long before my time, but everything I read suggests that the jazz age/pre-Beats hipsters really genuinely wanted to go and be a part of various urban black cultural/musical scenes.

Anti-Establishment would be the key theme there - the "hipsters" I see seem more like kids who have just arrived at a new college and are busy forming cliques within their own demographic. They are slumming for kicks, and I suspect the vast majority of them are fundamentally not very different than Big Ten grads, just with differing tastes in beer and clothes.

To quiboto's point, I am sure we were all there at some point - but most of us don't seem to have stretched that time of adolescence into our early thirties and beyond, the kids I grew up with were all buying our own clothes at the thrift stores when we were 13, it was the only way we could get clothes we wanted to wear!