Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
^I never understand this thought process honestly, and I really don't think it's because I'm young(ish) and don't have kids yet. Whether I'm 22 and 52 or 92 what I want out of a city isn't really all that different.
I don't go to the "awesome night spots" after work everyday even now. I'll do a happy hour with coworkers every week or two and usually a party, concert or street festival one weekend night.
Those, admittedly, might have to be a bit fewer and further between once I'm a parent.
But what I like about the city on a daily basis is far different. I take my dog on a walk around the neighborhood and meet up with my neighbors, I walk a block to the little bodega and pick up a six pack, or we walk to dinner together at one of the casual places in our neighborhood. I can get to work easily via the bus if my car is messed up or the weather is bad (and, if it weren't honestly more expensive than driving I'd do it every day) and I have a 4-minute commute instead of sitting in rush hour traffic every damn day like so many of my coworkers (I'd honestly lose it).
Living in the city is so much more about a lifestyle choice for us and assuming we can make the school situation work (and given how long we have I feel confident that we will), we'll be urbanites for always.
Not to pick on aragx but about two years ago she was thisclose to a literal neighbor of mine. As I recall she was bored to teared and moved into Chicago where she signficantly INCREASED her travel time in exchange for much improved nightlife. Humourously a bar that I can (and do) walk to has $1 PBR (which I never touch, much preferring a tasty beverage from a the transplanted localish brewery that is 5X more -- Lagunitas Brewing to open new brewery in Chicago | BeerPulse ...) so I can totally relate to the value of a lil' corner bar -- DJ's Sports Bar - Menu I can also walk to several "casual places" including near gourmet options: Standard Grill | Standard Market I routinely bump into neighbors while walking my dog(s) around the park -- Westmont Park District - Ty Warner Park or on the way to local coffee spots -- Quinn's Coffee House - Clarendon Hills | Urbanspoon or Starbuck's Clarendon Hills I am fortunate to be close enough to my office to ride a bicycle, though admittedly I too generally drive my vehicle...
I live in the city and reverse-commute to the burbs for work, as do half of my friends. We range in age from late-20's to early-40's. We commute to burbs in all directions (North shore, Northwest, West, South, NWI). This isn't an age thing -- none of us plan to move to the burbs, ever, regardless of age or offspring status.
Yes, if Chicago's schools don't get better in response to aging young professionals who are having children and staying in the city, and if more jobs don't move into the city from the burbs, you'll see many in that demographic moving. They won't be moving to the burbs, though -- They'll be moving to other major cities that are more forward-thinking-and-moving. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
And Chet, it's your perception that is trumping reality if you're able to view the amenities of Westmont as being on par with those of Chicago. More power to you for your own lifestyle, but don't act surprised when others disagree.
... if you make that move without a combination of OBJECTIVE analysis of things like the comparitive COL as well as the SUBJECTIVE quality of life issues of living in a place more suited to the things you value you will waste a whole lot of time and money avoiding something that is actually far more pleasant than you currently understand...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiNaan
I live in the city and reverse-commute to the burbs for work, as do half of my friends. We range in age from late-20's to early-40's. We commute to burbs in all directions (North shore, Northwest, West, South, NWI). This isn't an age thing -- none of us plan to move to the burbs, ever, regardless of age or offspring status.
If Chicago's schools don't get better in response to aging young professionals who are having children and staying in the city, you'll see many in this demographic moving, but they won't be moving to the 'burbs --they'll be moving to other major cities.
... if you make that move without a combination of OBJECTIVE analysis of things like the comparitive COL as well as the SUBJECTIVE quality of life issues of living in a place more suited to the things you value you will waste a whole lot of time and money avoiding something that is actually far more pleasant than you currently understand...
Do you really think we only disagree with you because we don't "currently understand", and not because we have a different SUBJECTIVE definition of quality of life than you do?
I've lived in suburbia. It was anything but pleasant. It was miserable, and moving to the city was one of the best life decisions I've ever made. I'm not the only person I know who has had this experience.
If everyone had your, ahem, "understanding," every inner city would be abandoned and neglected because everyone would want to live in the burbs. That pretty much sums up the worst metro areas in the country. Luckily for you there are people who prefer to live in the city of Chicago, who maintain it as a nice city so that people like you in neighboring towns can go around the country telling people with pride that you live "in Chicago." You're welcome.
Oh you poor poor dear thing. You live "in the Inner City". It must been a*dreadful sort of existence that your were able to escape.
I was raised in Chicago. In my day we did not call anything "the Inner City" so I've absolutely no idea where you think that might be. I was born near Marquette Park. My parents moved there because it was nicer than where they grew up, Back of the Yards. They then moved a bit further west to a part of Chicago that some now call Archer Heights but we generally referred to by the nearest parish before they realized that too was a loosing proposition of living under under the tyranny of rising taxes and falling property values. They settled in a suburb where the things they valued were also shared by their neighbors -- best decision they ever made. I moved back into Chicago for awhile too, not altogether horrible but between the hassles of petty crime and endless escalation of COL as well as the non-stop madness of working for CPS moving to a saner place was probably the best decision I ever made. Given that the whole region has 12.5 million souls and less than 20% of us live inside Chicago I'm guessing I am not the only one who has had this experience. The sq ft adjusted COL for places in hipster parts of Chicago is probably higher than all but a few spots on the list mentioned earlier in this thread but this fact is offset by the bombed out crime ridden parts of Chicago where you can't give away a building. Is that your "inner city"?
I am so very sorry that your experience living in suburbia was anything but pleasant. Maybe you had this experience in some subpar suburb. I really doubt that all 10M+ folks that live in the region beyond the confines of Chicago would call their existence miserable.
The reason that the worst metro areas in the country truly are awful "inner cities" is not that they are some gentrified / yuppified / homogenized Disney-esque place like Wicker Park or Ukrainian Village and not that people like me with good jobs and respect for my own property / concern for others DON'T choose to live there but that the unfortunate folks stuck there can neither depend on their corrupt and dysfunctional local government NOR are there any private sector resources left as they've been driven out by the same horrible combination of lack of safety and *such that my parents encountered nearly six decades ago.. Think Gary IN, Detroit MI, Joliet IL not someplace with a mix of frothy hipsters and opportunists that wanna make a buck of 'em... Happy to explain things!*
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiNaan
Do you really think we only disagree with you because we don't "currently understand", and not because we have a different SUBJECTIVE definition of quality of life than you do?
I've lived in suburbia. It was anything but pleasant. It was miserable, and moving to the city was one of the best life decisions I've ever made. I'm not the only person I know who has had this experience.
If everyone had your, ahem, "understanding," every inner city would be abandoned and neglected because everyone would want to live in the burbs. That pretty much sums up the worst metro areas in the country. Luckily for you there are people who prefer to live in the city of Chicago, who maintain it as a nice city so that people like you in neighboring towns can go around the country telling people with pride that you live "in Chicago." You're welcome.
Do you really think we only disagree with you because we don't "currently understand", and not because we have a different SUBJECTIVE definition of quality of life than you do?
I've lived in suburbia. It was anything but pleasant. It was miserable, and moving to the city was one of the best life decisions I've ever made. I'm not the only person I know who has had this experience.
If everyone had your, ahem, "understanding," every inner city would be abandoned and neglected because everyone would want to live in the burbs. That pretty much sums up the worst metro areas in the country. Luckily for you there are people who prefer to live in the city of Chicago, who maintain it as a nice city so that people like you in neighboring towns can go around the country telling people with pride that you live "in Chicago." You're welcome.
The topic of this was started as a discussion of Chicago's relative ranking as a place that is sort of "middle of the road" as far as stretching one's budget. There were useful comparisons about how even larger older cities in the heart of high wage Silicon Valley can be surprisingly "budget friendly" on paper and how other cities not on the coasts similarly rate.
Meanwhile folks with a myopic hatred of suburbia have not really explained either how the COL compares or even what they consider "the inner city"...
I think it is clear who sets chum in the water!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiNaan
I know. We're pretty much the makeup of this forum, apart from the occasional trolling suburbanite.
I think I'll go to the suburbs now and tell them how wrong they all are for living there, and how they just don't "understand".
Oh you poor poor dear thing. You live "in the Inner City". It must been a*dreadful sort of existence that your were able to escape.
I was raised in Chicago. In my day we did not call anything "the Inner City" so I've absolutely no idea where you think that might be. I was born near Marquette Park. My parents moved there because it was nicer than where they grew up, Back of the Yards. They then moved a bit further west to a part of Chicago that some now call Archer Heights but we generally referred to by the nearest parish before they realized that too was a loosing proposition of living under under the tyranny of rising taxes and falling property values. They settled in a suburb where the things they valued were also shared by their neighbors -- best decision they ever made. I moved back into Chicago for awhile too, not altogether horrible but between the hassles of petty crime and endless escalation of COL as well as the non-stop madness of working for CPS moving to a saner place was probably the best decision I ever made. Given that the whole region has 12.5 million souls and less than 20% of us live inside Chicago I'm guessing I am not the only one who has had this experience. The sq ft adjusted COL for places in hipster parts of Chicago is probably higher than all but a few spots on the list mentioned earlier in this thread but this fact is offset by the bombed out crime ridden parts of Chicago where you can't give away a building. Is that your "inner city"?
I am so very sorry that your experience living in suburbia was anything but pleasant. Maybe you had this experience in some subpar suburb. I really doubt that all 10M+ folks that live in the region beyond the confines of Chicago would call their existence miserable.
The reason that the worst metro areas in the country truly are awful "inner cities" is not that they are some gentrified / yuppified / homogenized Disney-esque place like Wicker Park or Ukrainian Village and not that people like me with good jobs and respect for my own property / concern for others DON'T choose to live there but that the unfortunate folks stuck there can neither depend on their corrupt and dysfunctional local government NOR are there any private sector resources left as they've been driven out by the same horrible combination of lack of safety and *such that my parents encountered nearly six decades ago.. Think Gary IN, Detroit MI, Joliet IL not someplace with a mix of frothy hipsters and opportunists that wanna make a buck of 'em... Happy to explain things!*
This post is so full of BS that I don't know where to start, but I'll correct just a few things.
1) The Chicago MSA has 9.7 million people. The entire CSA, which includes places as far-flung as Michigan City and Kankakee, has 9.8 million people. 12.7 was apparently a number pulled out of your ass, unless you're including Iowa and Missouri or something.
2) Trust me, I dislike the gentrified / yuppiefied / homogenized parts of the city almost as much as I dislike the suburbs, and for many of the same reasons, though Ukrainian Village has a ways to go before it reaches that category, despite what some who own real estate there would like to think.
3) When you say that some people prefer the suburbs while others enjoy the city, you're making my point for me. I've never said that one or the other is more desirable for everyone. You're the one saying that.
4) If you had actually read my post you would notice that I didn't refer to any part of Chicago as "the inner city", but was referring to the general concept of inner cities (as opposed to suburbs) in metro areas across the U.S. Or maybe you did actually read my post but chose to pretend I said something else.
You have a truly bizarre, giant anti-urban chip on your shoulder that is apparent in nearly everything you post. I don't know what happened to cause this for you, but it's not really our problem. You'd be doing us all a favor if you sorted that out on your own rather than inflicting it upon everyone else.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Here is something to chew on...
