Does Royko's Chicago still exist anywhere? (Niles, Elmwood Park: for sale, homes, buying)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No because the city does not have a blue collar base economy anymore and the children of immigrants no longer live in ethnic neighborhoods that once made up the city. Now most areas have the Poles, Italians, Mexicans, blacks, Irish and gays all living together. I think the only ethnic group that largely sticks in the same place are Puerto Ricans in Humbolt Park. I don't know why. I am Italian and have no desire to live in Little Italy like grandma did.
No. Just no. I don't even think the most hard core, defensive Chicago promoter could ever, ever claim this.
You might as well say Chicago has no more corruption. Or that San Francisco has become friendly to the bible belt, or that no one will ask you what church you go to in the South.
The Poles, Italians and Irish - sure. Of course. Also, the Mexicans also seem to integrate with these groups fairly well particularly the Italians (which one wouldn't be surprised - they sometimes look similar, speak a Latin based language, are traditionally Catholic, tight-knit families, macho "sexist" in the more extreme cases, hardworking, can be fashionable (good examples would be Melrose Park, Berwyn, and many others). But Blacks and Gays in those neighborhoods. No. Well, at least not anything significant. Those groups are segregated from white Catholics. (and that has nothing to do with religion of course - its culture).
As far as the Puerto Ricans in Humboldt Park go? That community goes much further than just "sticking together" they are more like openly hostile to new residents that would otherwise make the neighborhood much nicer.
No. Just no. I don't even think the most hard core, defensive Chicago promoter could ever, ever claim this.
You might as well say Chicago has no more corruption. Or that San Francisco has become friendly to the bible belt, or that no one will ask you what church you go to in the South.
The Poles, Italians and Irish - sure. Of course. Also, the Mexicans also seem to integrate with these groups fairly well particularly the Italians (which one wouldn't be surprised - they sometimes look similar, speak a Latin based language, are traditionally Catholic, tight-knit families, macho "sexist" in the more extreme cases, hardworking, can be fashionable (good examples would be Melrose Park, Berwyn, and many others). But Blacks and Gays in those neighborhoods. No. Well, at least not anything significant. Those groups are segregated from white Catholics. (and that has nothing to do with religion of course - its culture).
As far as the Puerto Ricans in Humboldt Park go? That community goes much further than just "sticking together" they are more like openly hostile to new residents that would otherwise make the neighborhood much nicer.
I would not say that because we have blacks and gays in Arlington Heights. Sure not a whole lot but they are here and nobody bothers them. As for the Puerto Ricans and Humbolt Park, I cannot figure them out. No matter how well in life the best among them do, they seem to never want to leave the place even though it is crummy. They just build nice houses in a lousy neighborhood. Even the Congressman I think lives over there. I would not say they are hostile to non PRs as much as they are just protective as to what they view as "their hood". Everybody is going to mass less and less these days. It was important to my grandparents, less important to my parents and I go twice a year at best.
I would not say that because we have blacks and gays in Arlington Heights. Sure not a whole lot but they are here and nobody bothers them. As for the Puerto Ricans and Humbolt Park, I cannot figure them out. No matter how well in life the best among them do, they seem to never want to leave the place even though it is crummy. They just build nice houses in a lousy neighborhood. Even the Congressman I think lives over there. I would not say they are hostile to non PRs as much as they are just protective as to what they view as "their hood". Everybody is going to mass less and less these days. It was important to my grandparents, less important to my parents and I go twice a year at best.
I actually grew up in Arlington Hts, and yes I would say as long as you are a good citizen whether black or even gay, no one would care. However, Arlington Hts I will say pretty much grew after civil rights, so it doesn't have the neighborhood history that the inner suburbs do. While AH certainly does have many sections that pre-date 1960, including a historic downtown (that was considered a small town back then) most of the growth took place when people really wouldn't care what your background was.
As far as the Mass thing, yes, you do have a lot of "C and E" Catholics, but thats not really the point. The distinction that is characteristic of white Catholics has really less to do with religion per se, and more to do with common culture. Most white Catholics are only a generation from working in factories. There is still a strong blue collared personality due to when and from where they immigrated. I don't care what anyone says, there is still an average personality difference (Poles/Italian American) amongst people of these backgrounds than in areas that are predominantly WASP and lesser extent Jews. More direct, less politically correct, die hard sports fans, tend to go into careers that are more "utilitarian". Its just different.
[quote=Tex?Il?;28601409]I actually grew up in Arlington Hts, and yes I would say as long as you are a good citizen whether black or even gay, no one would care. However, Arlington Hts I will say pretty much grew after civil rights, so it doesn't have the neighborhood history that the inner suburbs do. While AH certainly does have many sections that pre-date 1960, including a historic downtown (that was considered a small town back then) most of the growth took place when people really wouldn't care what your background was.
As far as the Mass thing, yes, you do have a lot of "C and E" Catholics, but thats not really the point. The distinction that is characteristic of white Catholics has really less to do with religion per se, and more to do with common culture. Most white Catholics are only a generation from working in factories. There is still a strong blue collared personality due to when and from where they immigrated. I don't care what anyone says, there is still an average personality difference (Poles/Italian American) amongst people of these backgrounds than in areas that are predominantly WASP and lesser extent Jews. More direct, less politically correct, die hard sports fans, tend to go into careers that are more "utilitarian". Its just different.[/QUO
Excellent points. I would add that it is places like AH that now supply places like Chicago with the young college graduates born and raised in post-civil rights suburbia; these kids grew up out there and are moving into the city for the urban experience. Many don't know why their parents and grandparents moved out there; it's funny listening to them go on about how non-racist they are and that so-and-so is racist,
I actually grew up in Arlington Hts, and yes I would say as long as you are a good citizen whether black or even gay, no one would care. However, Arlington Hts I will say pretty much grew after civil rights, so it doesn't have the neighborhood history that the inner suburbs do. While AH certainly does have many sections that pre-date 1960, including a historic downtown (that was considered a small town back then) most of the growth took place when people really wouldn't care what your background was.
As far as the Mass thing, yes, you do have a lot of "C and E" Catholics, but thats not really the point. The distinction that is characteristic of white Catholics has really less to do with religion per se, and more to do with common culture. Most white Catholics are only a generation from working in factories. There is still a strong blue collared personality due to when and from where they immigrated. I don't care what anyone says, there is still an average personality difference (Poles/Italian American) amongst people of these backgrounds than in areas that are predominantly WASP and lesser extent Jews. More direct, less politically correct, die hard sports fans, tend to go into careers that are more "utilitarian". Its just different.[/QUO
Excellent points. I would add that it is places like AH that now supply places like Chicago with the young college graduates born and raised in post-civil rights suburbia; these kids grew up out there and are moving into the city for the urban experience. Many don't know why their parents and grandparents moved out there; it's funny listening to them go on about how non-racist they are and that so-and-so is racist,
My experience is the opposite. I grew up in the city and went to Catholic schools until I was expelled and then went to Senn High until I quit. I actually finished high school while serving a prison sentence. I will be the first to tell you that, while my grandparents were very prejudiced (they did not even like the Irish much) and my parents were somewhat prejudiced ("blacks are OK to work with but we don't marry them or live by them") they did not have the money to move to the suburbs. Me and my sister were the first to move to the suburbs. And we did so for reasons that have nothing to do with race. She because her husband works in Schaumburg and me because my first born got me thinking about bad gang infested public schools or being indoctrinated in Catholic schools neither of which appealed to me. I work in the Chicago schools everyday and, with a few exceptions, I would not send a dog to one of them. In fact 90% of the teachers do NOT send their own kids to board schools. That is why we moved out here. Black and brown people do not bother me. Unlike my parents, I am not scared of them. I don't dislike them and I get along with them. Would I date one if I were single? Probably not. Would I mind if my kids did? Not at all.
My experience is the opposite. I grew up in the city and went to Catholic schools until I was expelled and then went to Senn High until I quit. I actually finished high school while serving a prison sentence. I will be the first to tell you that, while my grandparents were very prejudiced (they did not even like the Irish much) and my parents were somewhat prejudiced ("blacks are OK to work with but we don't marry them or live by them") they did not have the money to move to the suburbs. Me and my sister were the first to move to the suburbs. And we did so for reasons that have nothing to do with race. She because her husband works in Schaumburg and me because my first born got me thinking about bad gang infested public schools or being indoctrinated in Catholic schools neither of which appealed to me. I work in the Chicago schools everyday and, with a few exceptions, I would not send a dog to one of them. In fact 90% of the teachers do NOT send their own kids to board schools. That is why we moved out here. Black and brown people do not bother me. Unlike my parents, I am not scared of them. I don't dislike them and I get along with them. Would I date one if I were single? Probably not. Would I mind if my kids did? Not at all.
Well sure, obviously there are major generational differences.
I guess what I was getting at, is more about actual residential patterns. Even if the new generation is less prejudice the residential geography kind of remains. Sure, people move. But most people don't if they are fine with where they grew up. Again, I'm thinking here, more Norridge, Niles, Elmwood Park, Westchester, Evergreen Park, Oak Lawn, Chicago Ridge, Lyons, etc.as well as adjacent city neighborhoods like Garfield Ridge, Mt. Greenwood/Beverly, Portage Park, Edison Park, Harwood Hts., Jefferson Park, etc. These are what the "white ethnic" enclaves evolved into. These areas are what I am referring to that "yes, the white ethnic neighborhood is sort of still around in a different form.
And by the way I was actually suggest that the middle and outer rings suburbs are more mixed, as opposed to the inner ring post-war 1950s suburbs, where again, they were first "settled" pre civil rights.
And in a way, you're almost proving my point. Those who remain on the outer edges of the city, might be a little more conservative than the ones who moved to the middle and outer ring suburbs, because they like the influence of the parochial schools. Whereas public schools in the suburbs are going to be both good quality and diverse.
As far as the Mass thing, yes, you do have a lot of "C and E" Catholics, but thats not really the point. The distinction that is characteristic of white Catholics has really less to do with religion per se, and more to do with common culture. Most white Catholics are only a generation from working in factories. There is still a strong blue collared personality due to when and from where they immigrated.
hmmm.
Quote:
I don't care what anyone says, there is still an average personality difference (Poles/Italian American) amongst people of these backgrounds than in areas that are predominantly WASP and lesser extent Jews. More direct, less politically correct, die hard sports fans, tend to go into careers that are more "utilitarian". Its just different.
Makes sense when compared to personal experience. But I do now knot of areas which are predominantly WASP' though. WASPS self-extinguished themselves through interbreeding/intermarrying anyway. It's more of 'richer people' I guess (said white ethnics can become rich & some are more uh PC I guess. Though you could argue again more Jews & 'WASPs' start in a priviledged position & white ethnics who become richer still are more 'curt' arguably).
Some seem to think Wasps are an elite, as though they're a group of highly educated and wealthy people. Well plenty of them aren't that, MOST of them aren't that. Hell, there are entire regions of the nation inhabited largely by poorly educated WASPs with comparatively low incomes.
..do you mean Good Old Boston . The home of the bean and the cod - where the Lowells speak only to Cabots, and Cabots speak only to God ?? .
Nah, I was thinking of south of the Ohio.
Speaking of Boston I'm reminded of the quip that the Puritans came over here so they could pray. And when they were done preying on the Indians they started preying on everyone else.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
