Baby Shot on South Side (Chicago: neighbourhoods, taxes, dangerous)

[chitownperson]

Originally Posted by lenniel

You're trying to compare a mass shooting by a crazy lunatic in a white community (which happens very, very rarely) to a shooting in the black community, (which happens on a daily/nightly basis). Those are two very different things. Apples and oranges.
In addition, not to get into a gun control argument, but even when Chicago had the strictest gun laws in the country, it still had a very high gun crime rate in the BC. It's the people, not the guns.

The motivation and specifics are different, but in the end, kids are getting killed, and more black kids and babies for that matter. Your pointing to the fact that people are more surprised that this could happen in a rich white community, and are shocked for that matter. That's different from outrage that is motivated by wanting to transform a community due to shootings.

I don't know why you say you don't want to get into a gun control argument, and then present a gun control argument, but to address it, you're ignoring the fact that criminals get guns through strawman purchases outside city limits. I've always said, city wide bans make little difference, only national bans work. You cannot diminish supply if every time you take a gun away, the guy just goes to Lombard or Indianna and buys it some someone else.

[chitownperson]

Originally Posted by lenniel

Excuses, excuses. You've been listening to too much Jesse, Al and Flager. They want to put the blame on everyone but their own. You should probably listen to more Bill Crosby because he tells it like it is. I'm surprised Obama hasn't come out more forcefully since he'd be a great role model for kids in the BC but maybe he's afraid of upsetting much of the Dem voting base as well.

While I agree that poverty and violence seem to always go together, it seems much more pronounced in the BC. You don't have to be a Harvard grad to know that having babies as a teen, with no daddy, education, job, etc is a bad idea. Yet this continues to happen and feeds this revolving cycle in the BC.

And again, it's not that it takes a white kid getting shot to upset people. It's just that when you read about multiple shootings, EVERY night in the BC, you eventually just shake your head and say "man, when are they are going to learn"?

Funny you're saying excuses, because that's what much of your post reads like. I'm no fan of Jesse, Al and co. but it's not surprising that some people always bring them up as ideological ammo when racial equality comes into question.

You say violence is more prevalent in the "BC" when poverty is equal, but you ignore the social dynamics of institutionalised racism. City services getting shut off in poor "BC", under funded schools, segregation etc... Plus a history of abuse from the city. I suppose you don't think these things should play into how ones image of the world is formed? It's easy to say "man, when are they going to learn" when you haven't lived through the experiences some of the poor "BC" have. I remember a study not so long ago about the levels of trauma and anxiety kids that grow up in such areas receive on a daily basis due to fear of survival. I'm not saying people do not need to be accountable for what they do, but the fact remains that there are larger outside forces that also influence the dysfunction in such areas, and its ignorant to say "when are they going to learn", as if they are solely responsible and capable of making the change.

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by chitownperson

Funny you're saying excuses, because that's what much of your post reads like. I'm no fan of Jesse, Al and co. but it's not surprising that some people always bring them up as ideological ammo when racial equality comes into question.

You say violence is more prevalent in the "BC" when poverty is equal, but you ignore the social dynamics of institutionalised racism. City services getting shut off in poor "BC", under funded schools, segregation etc... Plus a history of abuse from the city. I suppose you don't think these things should play into how ones image of the world is formed? It's easy to say "man, when are they going to learn" when you haven't lived through the experiences some of the poor "BC" have. I remember a study not so long ago about the levels of trauma and anxiety kids that grow up in such areas receive on a daily basis due to fear of survival. I'm not saying people do not need to be accountable for what they do, but the fact remains that there are larger outside forces that also influence the dysfunction in such areas, and its ignorant to say "when are they going to learn", as if they are solely responsible and capable of making the change.

What's really funny is that people like you will be making these same excuses 100 years from now.

[Just1Fan]

This thread, which started with a baby being shot, has turned into a race debate. Only in America...

[chitownperson]

Originally Posted by Chicago South Sider

What's really funny is that people like you will be making these same excuses 100 years from now.

Well, if society doesn't change for the better, then people will be addressing the same issue 100 years for now. I'm sure people like you will continue to white wash these issue in 100 years.

[LeotheOrangeCat]

Originally Posted by Just1Fan

This thread, which started with a baby being shot, has turned into a race debate. Only in America...

Controversy and issues about race are as American as apple pie. They have always been part of this country and, judging by the disparity that continues to exist, they will contiinue to be long after all of us are all gone.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by chitownperson

Funny you're saying excuses, because that's what much of your post reads like. I'm no fan of Jesse, Al and co. but it's not surprising that some people always bring them up as ideological ammo when racial equality comes into question.

You say violence is more prevalent in the "BC" when poverty is equal, but you ignore the social dynamics of institutionalised racism. City services getting shut off in poor "BC", under funded schools, segregation etc... Plus a history of abuse from the city. I suppose you don't think these things should play into how ones image of the world is formed? It's easy to say "man, when are they going to learn" when you haven't lived through the experiences some of the poor "BC" have. I remember a study not so long ago about the levels of trauma and anxiety kids that grow up in such areas receive on a daily basis due to fear of survival. I'm not saying people do not need to be accountable for what they do, but the fact remains that there are larger outside forces that also influence the dysfunction in such areas, and its ignorant to say "when are they going to learn", as if they are solely responsible and capable of making the change.

There you go again, looking for reasons why there's more violence in the BC. I'm still a firm believer, outside of everything else you mention that might lead to whatever excuse you want to make, that there has to be a change in the culture and until some strong, prominant black leaders come out and tell it like it is, we'll continue with this sense of societal victimhood that you mention.
The fact is, black teens with no education, no job, no husband, should not be having children and certainly shouldn't be having multiple children from multiple men. Unfortunately, whether you want to hear or admit it, that is a MAJOR problem in the poor BC and one I don't believe is dealt with in a realistic way.

[Chicago South Sider]

Originally Posted by chitownperson

Well, if society doesn't change for the better, then people will be addressing the same issue 100 years for now. I'm sure people like you will continue to white wash these issue in 100 years.

You just don't get it, do you? The only people you have in this world are yourself and your family. The folks sitting around in the ghetto waiting for 'The Man' to rescue them will be waiting for a very long time. In life there is no such thing as fair or unfair, only cold, hard reality. And the reality is that God helps those who help themselves. So, keep making those exucses, friend. It seems to be what you do best.

[Just1Fan]

Originally Posted by LeotheOrangeCat

Controversy and issues about race are as American as apple pie. They have always been part of this country and, judging by the disparity that continues to exist, they will contiinue to be long after all of us are all gone.

You might be right, brotha. That's why, for the record, I prefer sweet potatoes in my pie.

[chitownperson]

Originally Posted by lenniel

There you go again, looking for reasons why there's more violence in the BC. I'm still a firm believer, outside of everything else you mention that might lead to whatever excuse you want to make, that there has to be a change in the culture and until some strong, prominant black leaders come out and tell it like it is, we'll continue with this sense of societal victimhood that you mention.
The fact is, black teens with no education, no job, no husband, should not be having children and certainly shouldn't be having multiple children from multiple men. Unfortunately, whether you want to hear or admit it, that is a MAJOR problem in the poor BC and one I don't believe is dealt with in a realistic way.

There you go again with you over reaching stereotypes. Yes, there are mother with too many kids that can't tae care of them, but the are also a lot of good families in these areas. You keep saying that I don't see the cultural effects when I've already acknowledged them. The point you don't seem to grasp, or are deliberately ignoring ARE the societal inequalities. You call these societal inequalities "excuses", so are under resourced schools excuses? Ironic, because that taps into your "black teens with no education". Are the lack of job opportunities excuse? Are the shutting down of services such as the USPS excuses? Is the distribution of police in poor BC in comparison to white communities an excuse too? You know the saying "if you treat someone like an animal long enough, they'll start acting like one".