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Old 06-30-2013, 03:28 PM
 
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Checked out the new Plum Market on Wells just north of Division. Similar to Whole Foods. Very expensive. I think I'll keep doing the bulk of my shopping at the Jewel at Clark and Division.
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
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You could have learned the same information from a quick Google search before going, no offfense... that's what Plum Market has always been billed as.
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Old 06-30-2013, 06:55 PM
 
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I wonder how the long term financial of places like Mariano's or Pete's will work out. I seem to recall that Dominick's spent a lot of money upgrading stores to have the emphasis on carry-out items / cafe / conveniently prepped produce but after the sale to Safeway those changes were undone.

The margins in all grocery stores are razor thin. Organizations like Aldi / Trade Joes manage to eek out a profit with a major emphasis on house brands and very tight logistics. Don't see how stretching distribution can't be very costly for the smaller number of stores...
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Old 06-30-2013, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Chicago
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Hmm, was that area really hurting for another market? I wonder what makes this place much preferable than all the other markets within a couple short miles of that location?
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Old 06-30-2013, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
Hmm, was that area really hurting for another market? I wonder what makes this place much preferable than all the other markets within a couple short miles of that location?
Well, let's see...Plum Market is like a smaller Whole Foods. Organic, natural, etc. There is a Jewel a few blocks away, but that's not what a lot of people see. Let's get real here. The building this is in is 1225 Old Town. It was just sold at the highest price per square foot per unit in the city's entire history. There's 250 units, and it's $632,000 per unit. The units are sold out. Not to mention some of the nice condos/houses/etc in the area too. The people in the area can more than afford it and don't really care about bargain shopping at Jewel.

Not only that, but yes. The immediate area doesn't really have a market. The Jewel at Clark & Division and the Treasure Island a little south of there are the only markets for a little bit at least in the immediate area. If you're paying $600,000+ for a one bedroom condo in the middle of the city, I hope you have a market close by and don't have to walk a few blocks to get it.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...ason-returning
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:15 PM
 
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Default Many places that are downtown have residents that ...

...never visit a grocery store! High sales price really is not an indication of the potential for retail grocers to succeed. The track record of food stores on / near Michicgan Ave is abysmal.

Sad fact is that the "investors" in too many of the grocers that locate near high priced residential real estate often have very poor handle on the lifestyle of folks in such areas -- for everyone one person that indulges a "hobby" of cooking exotic meals there are dozens that are likely eating out more than eating at home. When it comes to some of the "catering" type operations that some of the wannabe high end grocers run the fact is that folks in the costly residential units are often eating lighter and more "trendy" than folks in more pedestrian areas -- that gives a distinct edge to the small caters that can be more "creative".
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
Hmm, was that area really hurting for another market? I wonder what makes this place much preferable than all the other markets within a couple short miles of that location?
*miles*?

I've lived in Chicago for most of the past 18 years and I've never regularly patronized a grocery store more than a mile from my home. Sure I've popped into Fox and Obel on occasion or tried out a new place just to see what it's all about, but for groceries I would never go miles for groceries. I suppose people who drive everywhere might, but even when I've had regular access to a car, I've rarely used it to drive miles for groceries - that just sounds ridiculous to me.

And specifically in that area, even among the high-income people, many walk most places. The Jewel on Division is run down and probably won't be updated until they completely reconstruct it with a tower on top (plans underway), the Dominicks on Division is an option, although not especially pedestrian-friendly (not terrible, but not ideal), and from that location the Treasure Island on Wells and Potash Bros on Clark are about a 1/2 mile walk, which is pretty far to carry groceries or for a quick run to get something. Not to mention that in the past 10 years there has not only been the development that that's in, but also the tower across the street and one around the corner build. And there are a number of other high-density plans in the work with a 5-minute walk of that site, so there is probably enough demand now, and there will be even more demand in the not-so-distant future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Well, let's see...Plum Market is like a smaller Whole Foods. Organic, natural, etc. There is a Jewel a few blocks away, but that's not what a lot of people see. Let's get real here. The building this is in is 1225 Old Town. It was just sold at the highest price per square foot per unit in the city's entire history. There's 250 units, and it's $632,000 per unit. The units are sold out. Not to mention some of the nice condos/houses/etc in the area too. The people in the area can more than afford it and don't really care about bargain shopping at Jewel.

Not only that, but yes. The immediate area doesn't really have a market. The Jewel at Clark & Division and the Treasure Island a little south of there are the only markets for a little bit at least in the immediate area. If you're paying $600,000+ for a one bedroom condo in the middle of the city, I hope you have a market close by and don't have to walk a few blocks to get it.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...ason-returning
I concur.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:28 AM
 
28,455 posts, read 85,164,534 times
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Default While I agree that convenience is factor...

...the larger question of just how many grocers are sustainable is something that should be a concern.

There is long history of failure in the grocery business. Treasure Island has been through multiple bankruptcies, there was once a Bockwinkles in the same vertical mall that is home to Bloomingdale's on Michigan Ave.

Grocers eek out an existence on razor thin margins and even stores that appear crowded often are not profitable. There is little relationship between high cost residential units and the propensity of residents to spend money in a nearby grocer -- often times these residents are likely to eat many more meals outside the home than folks in a more moderate priced residential area. Folks that decry the low wages of nonunion stores ought to give some consideration of what their own patronage supports.

Though emathis is probably not unique among city dwellers that prefer not to drive to grocers the relative success of a grocer based only on presence of high cost residential units is quite poor. Many developers offer some incentive to grocers for locating nearby in the hope that will prove attractive to potential residential customers as well as spur asociated retail. The long term success of such strategies is often poor as the ultimate profit / loss is more complex than just "closest wins". Even when it comes to higher margin items like prepared food and catering I have seen many grocers with what seems like terrific location close their doors / change hands.

When any business fails it ultimately should be a lesson to others but those with no sense of history will repeat the same mistakes.
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Old 07-01-2013, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias View Post
*miles*?

I've lived in Chicago for most of the past 18 years and I've never regularly patronized a grocery store more than a mile from my home. Sure I've popped into Fox and Obel on occasion or tried out a new place just to see what it's all about, but for groceries I would never go miles for groceries. I suppose people who drive everywhere might, but even when I've had regular access to a car, I've rarely used it to drive miles for groceries - that just sounds ridiculous to me.

And specifically in that area, even among the high-income people, many walk most places. The Jewel on Division is run down and probably won't be updated until they completely reconstruct it with a tower on top (plans underway), the Dominicks on Division is an option, although not especially pedestrian-friendly (not terrible, but not ideal), and from that location the Treasure Island on Wells and Potash Bros on Clark are about a 1/2 mile walk, which is pretty far to carry groceries or for a quick run to get something. Not to mention that in the past 10 years there has not only been the development that that's in, but also the tower across the street and one around the corner build. And there are a number of other high-density plans in the work with a 5-minute walk of that site, so there is probably enough demand now, and there will be even more demand in the not-so-distant future.



I concur.
Thoughtful post. Better than others in this thread.

Last edited by Vlajos; 07-01-2013 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:54 AM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,620 posts, read 8,143,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Thoughtful post. Better than others in this thread.
But I did forget about the Treasure Island on Elm, which isn't too bad of a walk from there. I like Treasure Island, but it's kind of a weird chain of stores and I think a lot of newcomers find them a bit drab and disorganized. The European markets they seem to aim to mimic are more like the European markets of 30 years ago than how contemporary Europeans shop. I'd like to see TI try to either restructure as a totally modern market with a European theme, or to model themselves after the French Market under the tracks at Ogilvie. Either model would be preferable to their current stores.
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