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The past two years have been some of the best i have ever had financially and apparently my move worked out because unemployment has shot up to all time highs in IL making it one of the worst places to work in the country.
Cool that you got a job you like, but this statement is false.
I think a lot of young professionals (like me) moved out during the great recession and haven't made it back yet. High taxes in Cook county and a dysfunctional state, county, and municipal government has made it a crummy business environment. I know a ton of people that left Illinois for Texas and the D.C. metro area in the past 4 years.
Granted, I think the state is due for a comeback. It's going to take some reform, some house cleaning, and some politicians with the balls to fix the state's financial mess to make it right again.
[quote=frostopsy;31023145]I think a lot of young professionals (like me) moved out during the great recession and haven't made it back yet. High taxes in Cook county and a dysfunctional state, county, and municipal government has made it a crummy business environment. I know a ton of people that left Illinois for Texas and the D.C. metro area in the past 4 years.
My guess is this is probably key. California can survive higher taxes more easily because there's always people with money that want to move there for the weather and the great universities in the Bay area have spawned the information age and that fuels the economy.
Chicago has no draw for weather and no industires in particular that fuel the economy to that degree. Now you have Houston/Dallas taking a lot of the corporations with the lure of lower taxes and Chicago better come up with a response or go the way of Detroit during a protracted meltdown.
Chicago has no draw for weather and no industires in particular that fuel the economy to that degree. Now you have Houston/Dallas taking a lot of the corporations with the lure of lower taxes and Chicago better come up with a response or go the way of Detroit during a protracted meltdown.
Weather wise? Well, yeah sure there's no draw for picture perfect weather, but what Chicago has is geographical importance. It's in the middle of the country. Lagunitas Brewery for example, chose Chicago to house their largest brewery for a very good reason. O'Hare was once the busiest airport for freight for a reason (still one of the top 2 or 3 I believe in the US). It's because of its geographical location.
In this day and age too, you don't necessarily need that either for certain industries such as IT and what not. As an IT industry worker, there's really no huge professional difference in having winter weather versus no winter weather. For the financial industry too, as silly as this sounds, even though data moves extremely fast, the closer you are to the financial hub, the better even if it's a matter of a few MS - if you are doing very high volume trading. SO there is that too if you can't open up your business in NYC - which doesn't account for the fact that Chicago has the largest options exchange in the country.
Anyway, I don't think Chicago's business taxes are terrible, but obviously it's not Texas. Companies are still moving to Chicago from out of state, and more continue to relocate (or open up new offices) from the suburbs. Some companies are not all cheap and sometimes logistical concerns are still more important to them than saving 3% on tax believe it or not. Sometimes moving to Texas to save 3% in business tax may actually result in less business and therefore less revenue from a logistical standpoint. Those are types of things you have to consider. But again, in this day and age with so many IT type of companies, it doesn't matter a lot where you're located.
In the end though, sometimes a business is more complicated than just "Well we can save 3% on our business tax by moving to _____." Well, is your business going to increase, stay the same, or decrease if that happens? It could do any one of the three after a relocation depending on the industry, the clients you get, competition, etc.
Weather wise? Well, yeah sure there's no draw for picture perfect weather, but what Chicago has is geographical importance. It's in the middle of the country. Lagunitas Brewery for example, chose Chicago to house their largest brewery for a very good reason. O'Hare was once the busiest airport for freight for a reason (still one of the top 2 or 3 I believe in the US). It's because of its geographical location.
In this day and age too, you don't necessarily need that either for certain industries such as IT and what not. As an IT industry worker, there's really no huge professional difference in having winter weather versus no winter weather. For the financial industry too, as silly as this sounds, even though data moves extremely fast, the closer you are to the financial hub, the better even if it's a matter of a few MS - if you are doing very high volume trading. SO there is that too if you can't open up your business in NYC - which doesn't account for the fact that Chicago has the largest options exchange in the country.
Anyway, I don't think Chicago's business taxes are terrible, but obviously it's not Texas. Companies are still moving to Chicago from out of state, and more continue to relocate (or open up new offices) from the suburbs. Some companies are not all cheap and sometimes logistical concerns are still more important to them than saving 3% on tax believe it or not. Sometimes moving to Texas to save 3% in business tax may actually result in less business and therefore less revenue from a logistical standpoint. Those are types of things you have to consider. But again, in this day and age with so many IT type of companies, it doesn't matter a lot where you're located.
In the end though, sometimes a business is more complicated than just "Well we can save 3% on our business tax by moving to _____." Well, is your business going to increase, stay the same, or decrease if that happens? It could do any one of the three after a relocation depending on the industry, the clients you get, competition, etc.
You need IT support everywhere but if you're going to launch an IT company and you want it to be big, you do that in Silicon Valley...they have the investors, brilliant new graduates, and a large cache of experienced IT workers. All you have to do is look at history and this is proven and this drives the most profitable industry per sales of any major industry.
I agree that taxes are just a consideration of many and where you can generate the most sales is probably the biggest factor. But Chicago is the center of the Midwest which is declining as a percentage of the US population and economy. I'm not saying Chicago is in decline yet but their very high unemployment should be a concern.
The manufacturing sector continues to bleed jobs and other sectors are not picking up shortfall ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse69
Yeah, Chicago has a lot of mfg companies that I apply to jobs to yet I've been unemployed 5 years now. I even tried for entry level Mech Eng jobs at $45,000 / year yet I didn't get called for an interview.
Where once the manufacturing strength of Chicago was the muscle behind "the city that works" moniker the issues with workforce quality and taxes continue to be the sore spot in employment data...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrencecondo5724
I actually moved out of Chicago and my skills were absolutely some of the best in the Financial arena that money could buy. I moved to Texas and had no problems acquiring that dream job that i had spent 1.5 years attempting to find in IL while watching my IDES benefits nearly disappear. My family and i were forced to leave since our cash inflows were simply not enough to combat the VERY HIGH COST of living in Chicago that in most cases is NOT JUSTIFIED. I was not even that picky and i had ended up contracting just 6 out of those 17 months i was unemployed simply because there were SO MANY people willing to take ridiculously low wages to do the exact same thing while these contract jobs would only last no more than 2 months )NO HEALTH BENEFITS MIND YOU). The problem is quite simple: The population is too high, tax structures are too business unfriendly, and there just are not enough well paying jobs to keep up with the increasing population. If you dare move to IL make sure you have a job lined up and do your research on that company which may end up leaving the state like my last two companies did. The past two years have been some of the best i have ever had financially and apparently my move worked out because unemployment has shot up to all time highs in IL making it one of the worst places to work in the country.
The above is further evidence that other parts of the country are exhibiting much stronger employment than Chicago. The inflow of young people attracted by an environment unlike the low density car centric areas they may have grown up supresses wages for folks not just with basic / commodity skills but also folks with more advanced skills as management is unwilling to commit to higher wage disparity.
I suspect that many folks like lawrencecondo5724 have left the region for parts of country where higher demand and lower cost of living are doubly appealing.
Last edited by chet everett; 08-19-2013 at 07:46 AM..
Chicago is not a bad place to live. It does have it's problems.
If someone can do without the urban lifestyle and they don't have family ties to the area, they will leave! There are other cities that offer lower cost of living that will increase one quality of life. There is no way Chicago can compete with those cities.
Chicago is not a bad place to live. It does have it's problems.
If someone can do without the urban lifestyle and they don't have family ties to the area, they will leave! There are other cities that offer lower cost of living that will increase one quality of life. There is no way Chicago can compete with those cities.
I do think Chicago can compete and used to compete more readily with these cities several years ago. Listen, when I moved here in 2003 things were kicking! Everyone was optimistic, jobs were plentiful, the city just kept getting better and better. It was almost like "the place to be."
Now people at work can't run fast enough away from here. There is a fear that grips people about living here when you look at the massive debt that we are accumulating compared to other cities and states. One of our favorite couples that we used to hang out with just moved to Atlanta two weeks ago, another lost friend, because this is perceived as an "investment" to them whereas we are perceived as a future loss.
I agree with Tall Traveler above. Chicago does have a draw, but not enough to take from other areas of the country with better weather AND better taxes AND more efficient government. Relative to us, the sad thing is that would be most places. We don't have enough draw to have the business/government climate we have now. Illinois needs to have low income taxes like it has historically had (3%) and low business taxes to compete. California can get away with higher taxes with great year-round weather and amazing geography that will always be a pull. Chicago has a quadruple whammy of terrible weather, perceived boring geography, one of the highest tax burdens AND the highest government deficit per capita and pension debt burden in the entire nation. Who in their right mind would move here unless you really love the city and/or have family here? It is a perceived risk! The latter two can be fixed but it is going to take an Illinois that wants a balanced state government, and I just don't see that happening.
I do think Chicago can compete and used to compete more readily with these cities several years ago. Listen, when I moved here in 2003 things were kicking! Everyone was optimistic, jobs were plentiful, the city just kept getting better and better. It was almost like "the place to be."
Now people at work can't run fast enough away from here. There is a fear that grips people about living here when you look at the massive debt that we are accumulating compared to other cities and states. One of our favorite couples that we used to hang out with just moved to Atlanta two weeks ago, another lost friend, because this is perceived as an "investment" to them whereas we are perceived as a future loss.
I agree with Tall Traveler above. Chicago does have a draw, but not enough to take from other areas of the country with better weather AND better taxes AND more efficient government. Relative to us, the sad thing is that would be most places. We don't have enough draw to have the business/government climate we have now. Illinois needs to have low income taxes like it has historically had (3%) and low business taxes to compete. California can get away with higher taxes with great year-round weather and amazing geography that will always be a pull. Chicago has a quadruple whammy of terrible weather, perceived boring geography, one of the highest tax burdens AND the highest government deficit per capita and pension debt burden in the entire nation. Who in their right mind would move here unless you really love the city and/or have family here? It is a perceived risk! The latter two can be fixed but it is going to take an Illinois that wants a balanced state government, and I just don't see that happening.
I agree!
2003, everywhere was booming and optimistic. Those days are gone!
It does seem my friends that I met 5 years ago are all leaving with in the next two years.
Texas, Georgia, Missouri and Minnesota seems to be grabbing everyone. All of us except one loves the city but we all have other commitments both professional and personal that won't allow us to settle here.
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The manufacturing sector continues to bleed jobs and other sectors are not picking up shortfall ...
