Back of the Yards War Zone (Chicago, Oak Park: loans, public school, education)

[linicx]

WASP is more an arrogance born of privilege and religion than it is a pure color. I still see it a lot in small town America. The European family that settled in neighborhoods in Chicago and in Illinois in the early 1900s is not the same as their descendants in the 21st century. These children's ancestors lived in a Democracy for many decades. They had a different life experience than the grandparents who arrived in wooden ships in the 1600s that were raised in the Monarchy.

The Dutch, Scots, English, German, French - the monarchies in the Low Countries married, merged and had children. And new countries were formed in time from this same group. There was much upheaval in Western Europe before the 18th century. Europeans who came to the New World and settled in NY and LI came in part from this group. It was not too unusual that their children heard two languages at home.

At one time, for example, the Dutch, Polish, and Italians were extremely tight knit in their 'hoods. Time, transportation, and innovation changed and so did the face of the neighborhood where they grew up and lived as adults. Chicago, I am told, has the largest Polish population in America. But it is not where it was 100 years ago. Neither are the others. Ditto for the others.

My family was not tight knit. My grandmothers lived with us. I was probably 60 before I accidently found a cousin. We are not tight either.

[jonnynonos]

^^ It used to be a very real designation of the ruling class; as I'm sure you remember people were shocked a Catholic could be elected president when Kennedy took office.

The elite of the country prior to the 60s in nearly endeavor was very much WASP-ish going back to the founding of the country.

Joe Kennedy was a pariah for being Irish Catholic!

Thankfully things have changed absolutely dramatically in the last 50 years.

[treemoni]

Originally Posted by urza216

White culture isn't monothic... And you're talking this way on a Chicago forum no less - a city where
WASPs are in the minority among Caucasians. My dad was pure Polish and all my Polish relatives are very tight knit. My mom's side of the family (Dutch).. Not so much.

Is your dad a first or second generation Polish immigrant? That makes a difference. Immigrant culture is different from American culture. I'm referring to Americans who have lived in this country for generations.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by treemoni

Is your dad a first or second generation Polish immigrant? That makes a difference. Immigrant culture is different from American culture. I'm referring to Americans who have lived in this country for generations.

2nd generation. My grandparents were Polish immigrants. I wonder why we assimilated so much quicker than Mexicans.

White Chicagoans are often only three generations removed from Poland, Ireland, Greece or Italy.. It isn't uncommon.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein

You have more excuses than a pregnant nun.

I haven't heard that one in about 40 years.

I don't think a modern pregnant nun would make excuses.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by urza216

2nd generation. My grandparents were Polish immigrants. I wonder why we assimilated so much quicker than Mexicans.

White Chicagoans are often only three generations removed from Poland, Ireland, Greece or Italy.. It isn't uncommon.

Because you shorten your last name and no one can really tell the difference, plus there isn't anywhere near the prejudice against Poles as there is against indiginious Hispanic people.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by treemoni

This post REEKS of privilege, and you're so used to privilege you can't even see it.

Commuting to work takes time AND money. If you don't have a car, you have to get on public transportation. My job offers a $200+ stipend for commuting costs. Does a low-wage job do the same?? Doubtful.

"Other parts of the city" haven't figured anything out. Here, you imply that it's up to the residents in those neighborhoods to "figure out" how to bring jobs to their communities. It's not. At the very least, it's up to the alderman who's in charge of the ward. Then MAYBE he or she can put a proposal up. But do you really think Rahm Emanuel is taking a collaborative approach to governing? Is he REALLY gonna consider a proposal from an alderman whose constituents are poor? HIGH UNLIKELY. Good luck convincing the COMPANY (the entity that calls the shots here, because it's THEIR money at stake) to relocate to a low-income area.

People in Avondale can afford to commute to well-paying jobs (because I doubt most people in Avondale are commuting miles to work at McDonald's). You must realize that everyone doesn't have the luxuries that you do. And yes, when you are poor, using money from your meager paycheck to commute is most definitely a luxury.

Privilege. Can't stand it.

It is for people like you that life invented the phrase "someone call the Waaaahhhhmbulance."


Avondale isn't some fancy neighborhood, but that's an idiot's argument anyway.

You keep on thinking it's someone else's job to bring you a job, and the rest of us will keep getting up in time to make whatever commute is necessary at the moment. Then you keep looking for something better instead of expecting someone else to gift wrap and deliver it.

Are you under the delusion that doing your homework and continuing your education and skillset throughtout your life is a luxury? This would explain a lot.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Because you shorten your last name and no one can really tell the difference, plus there isn't anywhere near the prejudice against Poles as there is against indiginious Hispanic people.

Incorrect. My last name is VERY Polish sounding and so is my middle name. And my last name is 4 syllables and was never shortened.

Also - If I were to shorten my last name, that's assimilation. And the freakin question is WHY Poles assimilated quicker. Did you really just tell me that we assimilate quicker because we assimilated? How is that an answer?

Incorrect again. A Polish immigrant can easily be spotted by thier accent. And you know, cultural differences. You aren't all there if you're capable of meeting a Polish immigrant and being completely oblivious to him or her being an immigrant.

...and umm... Why is that? Why has there been more prejudice against Hispanic immigrants? Is it really JUST the darker complexion?

You're absolutely right that if you were to meet me and only know my first name, you would probably have no idea I'm polish. Hence WHY I'm asking the freakin question. 3rd Generation Mexican Americans often speak fluent Spanish and, although removed from recent immgants, pale in comparison to my assimilation. Why?

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by urza216

Did you really just tell me that we assimilate quicker because we assimilated? How is than answer?

THAT would be an example of begging the question. I think.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by urza216

Incorrect. My last name is VERY Polish sounding and so is my middle name. And my last name is 4 syllables and was never shortened.

Also - If I were to shorten my last name, that's assimilation. And the freakin question is WHY Poles assimilated quicker. Did you really just tell me that we assimilate quicker because we assimilated? How is that an answer?

Incorrect again. A Polish immigrant can easily be spotted by thier accent. And you know, cultural differences. You aren't all there if you're capable of meeting a Polish immigrant and being completely oblivious to him or her being an immigrant.

...and umm... Why is that? Why has there been more prejudice against Hispanic immigrants? Is it really JUST the darker complexion?

You're absolutely right that if you were to meet me and only know my first name, you would probably have no idea I'm polish. Hence WHY I'm asking the freakin question. 3rd Generation Mexican Americans often speak fluent Spanish and, although removed from recent immgants, pale in comparison to my assimilation. Why?

You should have phrased your question to indicate that you meant "Why have Poles voluntarily assimiliated more quickly than Mexicans."

Assimilation is a two way street; by and large most immigrant groups have sought to assimilate to some degree, particularly in days gone by when, as I noted above, it was basically conventional wisdom that being a WASP was the ideal.

You are apparently of the belief that Poles voluntarily assimilated while Mexicans are voluntarily not assimmilating?

Well, like I said, it's a two way street. That's why it's called "assimilation."

I think the answer(s) are fairly self explanatory.