Is East Garfield Park between Sacramento and Kedzie a bad area? (Chicago: section 8, rent)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by JoeyPants

According to your own stats EGP has had 2 murders in 2009, and we are already half way through the year. The total number from one year ago to today is 5. Those other addresses listed are not East Garfield Park, but Humboldt Park and West Garfield Park. Anyone with minimal knowledge of EGP would know that. Your stats indicated that you are either dishonest or have little knowledge of the area. Nevertheless, if you insist on including statistics of HP and WGP, than you must include their population which is an additional 120,000. 25 murders per 100,000 is not that much more than the city average and in line with 2001 city wide murder rates. So I guess Chicago in 2001 was a violent hell hole, using your logic.

Ah, no. I don't insist on including the stats of HP and WGP. Like I said, you can go straight to the source at CPD's CLEARMAP if you don't like Everyblock.

Originally Posted by JoeyPants

CPD generally doesn't group crimes by neighborhood, but by district (I'm sure you know that already) EGP falls in district 11, which includes Humboldt Park, Austin, and West Garfield Park.

If I had included the entire district, then the total number of murders in the last year would be 45, not 11. CLEARMAP allows you to search by several criteria, including police beat, police district, ward, or community area (I'm sure you know that already), so go ahead and check it out for yourself if you don't like the numbers I provide.

Originally Posted by JoeyPants

I've been in EGP since 2005, and have seen a significant improvement. It is a high crime area no doubt, however most of the crime in this area is drug sales/ prostitution and not of the violent nature. I get solicited for both on a weekly basis.

Most crimes anywhere are majority non-violent in nature. But that has nothing to do with whether or not the violent crime rate in EGP is higher, lower, or the same as anywhere else in the city, county, state, country, world, et cetera.

Originally Posted by JoeyPants

I'm not minimizing the 5 murders that occured within the last year

What about the other 6?

Originally Posted by JoeyPants

but lets be honest, the violent crime that does occur is generally between drug/gang rivals or acquaintances.

Yes, let's be honest, and let's answer these questions honestly:

Are you more likely, or less likely, to be acquainted with someone violent if you live in a neighborhood with a substantially higher-than-average violent crime rate versus one with an average or below-average crime rate?

Are you more or less likely to be caught up in gang crossfire in a neighborhood with a substantially higher-than-average violent crime rate versus one with an average or below-average crime rate?

Are you more likely or less likely to be beaten or robbed in a neighborhood with a substantially higher-than-average violent crime rate versus one with an average or below-average crime rate?

Originally Posted by JoeyPants

Before settling in on the West Side I had simliar apprehensions and fears as many of the posters on this board. 5 years later I have learned that the fears are unfounded and based on ignorance.

Then I guess people who are trying their hardest to get the hell out of West Side neighborhoods like EGP after living there all their lives are ignorant.

Originally Posted by JoeyPants

What I will tell you is that the small day to day quality of life issues get to me from time to time. I'm talking about blaring music from cars, empty beer bottles, littering (my pet peeve), dudes working on their cars in the street, etc..

EGP has pockets which are worse than others. I'll be the first to admit that until recently my block was one of the worst. Recently it has taken a turn for the better. Ironically the housing market crash has caused many of my trashy neighbors to foreclose. On my block alone there are 4 homes being rehabbed that were inhabitted by drug dealers as recently as last summer. I don't have a crystal ball like othe posters on here (wish I did, I'd be a millionaire), so I don't really know how much and how fast the area will continue to change. What I do know is that in the 5 years I've been here, I've seen significant changes, and I'm not talking about condos, but the quality of people moving in.

That's great that you're seeing improvements. I don't think anyone here wants EGP or any other neighborhood to fester or fail. But we've heard the "up-and-coming" drumbeat for over a decade now. It hasn't amounted to much yet. Maybe someday. But not today. And in the meantime, anyone looking to move there today has a right to know the condition of the neighborhood today.

Originally Posted by JoeyPants

In summary, is EGP a ghetto, yeah, like many other areas in the city. Is it a violent hell hole? Only a yuppie raised in the burbs would think that.

In summary, EGP is not just a ghetto, but a violent ghetto. Only a pollyanna or a resident in complete denial would think otherwise.

If the neighborhood with the second-highest violent crime rate in the city can't be considered a violent ghetto, then we might as well pretend like there are no quantitative differences in violent crime rates between the various neighborhoods and thus no qualitative differences between them, or between any one place and any other place. Like I said earlier, I'm not going to play that silly game, especially when someone who is unfamiliar with this city comes looking for information about its various neighborhoods. If someone wants an urban-pioneer experience, I'll be sure to steer 'em your way. If someone wants a relatively safe, quiet and calm neighborhood, sorry, I'm gonna steer 'em clear of the violence-infested ghetto you live in.

[JoeyPants]

Originally Posted by Drover

Ah, no. I don't insist on including the stats of HP and WGP. Like I said, you can go straight to the source at CPD's CLEARMAP if you don't like Everyblock.


If I had included the entire district, then the total number of murders in the last year would be 45, not 11. CLEARMAP allows you to search by several criteria, including police beat, police district, ward, or community area (I'm sure you know that already), so go ahead and check it out for yourself if you don't like the numbers I provide.


Most crimes anywhere are majority non-violent in nature. But that has nothing to do with whether or not the violent crime rate in EGP is higher, lower, or the same as anywhere else in the city, county, state, country, world, et cetera.


What about the other 6?


Yes, let's be honest, and let's answer these questions honestly:

Are you more likely, or less likely, to be acquainted with someone violent if you live in a neighborhood with a substantially higher-than-average violent crime rate versus one with an average or below-average crime rate?

Are you more or less likely to be caught up in gang crossfire in a neighborhood with a substantially higher-than-average violent crime rate versus one with an average or below-average crime rate?

Are you more likely or less likely to be beaten or robbed in a neighborhood with a substantially higher-than-average violent crime rate versus one with an average or below-average crime rate?

Then I guess people who are trying their hardest to get the hell out of West Side neighborhoods like EGP after living there all their lives are ignorant.


That's great that you're seeing improvements. I don't think anyone here wants EGP or any other neighborhood to fester or fail. But we've heard the "up-and-coming" drumbeat for over a decade now. It hasn't amounted to much yet. Maybe someday. But not today. And in the meantime, anyone looking to move there today has a right to know the condition of the neighborhood today.


In summary, EGP is not just a ghetto, but a violent ghetto. Only a pollyanna or a resident in complete denial would think otherwise.

If the neighborhood with the second-highest violent crime rate in the city can't be considered a violent ghetto, then we might as well pretend like there are no quantitative differences in violent crime rates between the various neighborhoods and thus no qualitative differences between them, or between any one place and any other place. Like I said earlier, I'm not going to play that silly game, especially when someone who is unfamiliar with this city comes looking for information about its various neighborhoods. If someone wants an urban-pioneer experience, I'll be sure to steer 'em your way. If someone wants a relatively safe, quiet and calm neighborhood, sorry, I'm gonna steer 'em clear of the violence-infested ghetto you live in.

The address given by your source, everyblock include crimes committed on streets like Chicago Ave, Pulaski, Ohio, Ridgeway, etc.. EGP borders are fulton to the north and the park to the west. Only 2 addresses listed in your site fall within the boundaries. Here is a map of the area, notice the boundaries.

http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webpor...FIELD_PARK.pdf

[Drover]

Originally Posted by JoeyPants

The address given by your source, everyblock include streets like Chicago Ave, Pulaski, Ohio, Ridgeway, etc.. EGP borders are fulton to the north and the park to the west. Only 2 addresses listed in your site fall within the boundaries. Here is a map of the area, notice the boundaries.

http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webpor...FIELD_PARK.pdf

Like I said. If you don't like Everyblock, go to CPD's CLEARMAP. They use official community area boundaries as one of their search criteria.

[JoeyPants]

Originally Posted by Drover

It's not greater Garfield Park, though their definition of EGP appears to follow the "neighborhood" boundaries (which are always fluid and subject to change) versus the official community boundaries which are fixed. Refer to CPD's CLEARMAP if you don't trust everyblock, even though everyblock culls its data from the exact same database as CLEARMAP. According to CPD, there's been 11 murders in EGP in just the last year, so your claim there's been "only" 9 in the last two years is, to say the least, a little dubious. And CLEARMAP uses the official community boundaries, not unofficial "neighborhood" boundaries.

11 murders in one year in a neighborhood of 20,000 people, a rate roughly 3 times the city average and 9 times the national average.... yeah, I'd say it's a violent ghetto.

Everyblock Homicides in the past year, EGP addresses are listed, the rest are either WGP or Humboldt Park, I count 5. Murder rate is 25 per 100,000, Chicago's murder rate is 18.2 per 100,000. How is that 3 times the number? Statistically speaking, the incremental difference from 18.2 to 25 per 100,000 is minimal. We are talking a 0.010 % difference. If your reasoning and evidence are stats than the difference between a relatively safe environment and a violent hellhole is 0.010%.

3000 block W. Van Buren St - East Garfield Park
600 block N. Ridgeway Ave
3200 block W. Walnut St East Garfield Park
3800 block W. Adams St
400 block S. Pulaski Rd
3000 block W. Jackson Blvd East Garfield park
700 block N. Harding Ave
3700 block W. Ohio St
3000 block W. Franklin Blvd East Garfield Park
700 block N. Ridgeway Ave
3800 block W. Chicago Ave
300 block N. Pulaski Rd
00 block S. Hamlin Blvd 300 block S. Whipple St East Garfield Park

[Drover]

You can't have it both ways. You complain that Everyblock doesn't map the neighborhood properly, and then you use Everyblock's mis-mapped neighborhood outline to cull your data. While the map includes parts of HP and WGP as EGP, notice it also cuts off everything south of the Eisenhower. So add the ones that Everyblock ascribes to Lawndale but actually occurred in EGP. Or, as I keep saying, you can just go straight to the primary source that Everyblock culls from and search by Community Area and find the number for EGP. Whereupon you'll undoubtedly discover that your neighborhood is a violent ghetto. Or you can choose to keep ignoring the overwhelming evidence. Either way, it won't stop me from informing those who inquire about it that, at least for now, EGP is a violent ghetto.

kthxbye

[Drover]

For anyone interested, below is the running violent crime rate in each community area for the last 365 days as of approximately June 1st 2009, sorted by rate in descending order.

[Drover]

Let's try that again.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Drover

Let's try that again.

That list is a great resource. Do you mind if I post it myself in other threads?

[skyeINIL]

EGP is an extremely violent neighborhood. It is a fact. There is no debate.

[Irishtom29]

Mount Greenwood is a little higher than I'd expect. Must be young Harps having dust-ups in the taverns on Western.