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A friend of mine is a recent graduate from a Big Ten university and wants to move to Chicago. However, he has a BA in Sociology with a ~3.00 GPA.
No internship or meaningful work experience. Does not want to do sales. He wants a office job. What are his job prospects like?
Well, it depends.
I have a BS in Sociology from a small school and I make great money.
But it's a BS instead of a BA because I took a lot of comp sci coursework with it and actually work in the tech and financial industries.
Did he take his sociological studies seriously because he's fascinated by demographics and analyzing society (which is why I took it), or did he choose it because he perceived it to be moderately interesting and easy? Did he take a fair number of math courses as part of his requirements, and did he do well in them? Is he considering an advanced degree in something? What sorts of serious subjects does he talk about, and is he good at presenting himself?
A lot of whether or not he can succeed with a BA in Soc will depend on what else he knows how to do. When you say "no internship or meaningful work experience" and that instead of describing the type of work he finds interesting you describe his desire in terms of the type of physical environment he wants to be in, it makes me think he's not very ambitious. In which case I'd say his chances of breaking $35k/year anytime soon are pretty limited. When I graduated I had two meaningful internships under my belt, one in a role applicable to sociology and one in financial technology. I chose to follow the path of the second because, well, because frankly there just aren't a lot of great jobs out there for people who studied sociology but aren't actually sociologists (and honestly the field for PhD-level sociologist is only marginally better).
Given that unless he took a lot of math or programming courses and could pitch himself to places as an "almost-math major," or "almost comp sci major" (which is how I pitched myself into a career-track tech job when I graduated), he'll probably have to work his way up in his career instead of getting fast-tracked. If that's what he has to do, he may as well pick an area that he finds very interesting and just do everything he can to talk his way in the door. He may not make much money at first, but if he's doing something he finds genuinely interesting, he'll have a better chance of putting in the effort required to make a good career out of it.
On the practical side, if you or he have any contacts in City government, he may be able to find a job that way. If he's actually really into sociology, he may also want to start making contacts at the National Opinion Research Center, which may sound like some polling group, but it's a lot more academic than just some boilerroom call center and is affilliated with the U of C.
This is very good advice with some EXCELLENT points!
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias
Well, it depends.
...
But it's a BS instead of a BA because I took a lot of comp sci coursework with it and actually work in the tech and financial industries.
Did he take his sociological studies seriously because he's fascinated by demographics and analyzing society (which is why I took it), or did he choose it because he perceived it to be moderately interesting and easy? Did he take a fair number of math courses as part of his requirements, and did he do well in them? Is he considering an advanced degree in something? What sorts of serious subjects does he talk about, and is he good at presenting himself?
A lot of whether or not he can succeed with a BA in Soc will depend on what else he knows how to do. When you say "no internship or meaningful work experience" and that instead of describing the type of work he finds interesting you describe his desire in terms of the type of physical environment he wants to be in, it makes me think he's not very ambitious. In which case I'd say his chances of breaking $35k/year anytime soon are pretty limited. When I graduated I had two meaningful internships under my belt, one in a role applicable to sociology and one in financial technology. I chose to follow the path of the second because, well, because frankly there just aren't a lot of great jobs out there for people who studied sociology but aren't actually sociologists (and honestly the field for PhD-level sociologist is only marginally better).
Given that unless he took a lot of math or programming courses and could pitch himself to places as an "almost-math major," or "almost comp sci major" (which is how I pitched myself into a career-track tech job when I graduated), he'll probably have to work his way up in his career instead of getting fast-tracked. If that's what he has to do, he may as well pick an area that he finds very interesting and just do everything he can to talk his way in the door. He may not make much money at first, but if he's doing something he finds genuinely interesting, he'll have a better chance of putting in the effort required to make a good career out of it.
On the practical side, if you or he have any contacts in City government, he may be able to find a job that way. If he's actually really into sociology, he may also want to start making contacts at the National Opinion Research Center, which may sound like some polling group, but it's a lot more academic than just some boilerroom call center and is affilliated with the U of C.
Most of what I put in italicis is what competent people resent about the "bro" type losers that hang out in Lakeview sports bars -- though in honesty IF the OP's pal is in fact really good at smoozing there is a fair chance that he can get a decent paying job working in some sort of sales related job that would be in an office, like lining up contacts for computer software or hardware, helping google or yelp expand their local advertising reach or other jobs that are essentially glorified telemarketing...
In contrast the experience of emathias is less common but fairly realistic as the demands of actually MAJORING in mathematics or any kind of analytic science are so stringent that is unusual to find such a person NOT get hired at an on-campus event. That means that folks with "close enough" skillsets are still valuable to "plug the holes" in firms that really need people competent and comfortable with modern mathematical tools for everything from tailoring customer relationship management to analyzing the effectiveness of marketing.
The actual numbers really work against even people like emathias but fresh out of college and recently landed in Chicago becuase even firms with a very 'social' type atmosphere (like the various beverage related marketing firms in the region for instance...) are very reluctant to give somone with ZERO experience or an internship any shot at all as the potential for such a new hire to quite literally cause the employeer some grief with excessive drinking or other non-professional behavuor is just too big a risk. The OP's pal would be wise to get AT LEAST a year or so of ANY KIND of professional work under their belt, even it is working at advertising sales for a local TV, radio station or newspaper just to "prove" that he won't end up in any kind of embarassing party boy debacle...
Most of what I put in italicis is what competent people resent about the "bro" type losers that hang out in Lakeview sports bars -- though in honesty IF the OP's pal is in fact really good at smoozing there is a fair chance that he can get a decent paying job working in some sort of sales related job that would be in an office, like lining up contacts for computer software or hardware, helping google or yelp expand their local advertising reach or other jobs that are essentially glorified telemarketing...
In contrast the experience of emathias is less common but fairly realistic as the demands of actually MAJORING in mathematics or any kind of analytic science are so stringent that is unusual to find such a person NOT get hired at an on-campus event. That means that folks with "close enough" skillsets are still valuable to "plug the holes" in firms that really need people competent and comfortable with modern mathematical tools for everything from tailoring customer relationship management to analyzing the effectiveness of marketing.
The actual numbers really work against even people like emathias but fresh out of college and recently landed in Chicago becuase even firms with a very 'social' type atmosphere (like the various beverage related marketing firms in the region for instance...) are very reluctant to give somone with ZERO experience or an internship any shot at all as the potential for such a new hire to quite literally cause the employeer some grief with excessive drinking or other non-professional behavuor is just too big a risk. The OP's pal would be wise to get AT LEAST a year or so of ANY KIND of professional work under their belt, even it is working at advertising sales for a local TV, radio station or newspaper just to "prove" that he won't end up in any kind of embarassing party boy debacle...
Why are you assuming that excessive drinking is automatically involved? You don't know him at all..
Why are you assuming that excessive drinking is automatically involved? You don't know him at all..
Well, the guy has a 3.0 GPA and no internships. What else would he have been doing to get that GPA and not one internship, other than partying. Also, he's from a Big Ten, you get the picture. It's fair to make the connection.
...the point I was making was based on my knowledge of A SPECIFIC industry segment that has a signficiant presence in the region. Namely the "beverage" sector. This includes LOTS of different companies that sell everything from sports drinks to beer, wine and spirits. I have no idea if the OP's pal is a tea-totler or lush but the FACT is that folks in that sector that do hire kids right out of college with generic type liberal arts degrees such a sociology are often reluctant to hire someone that lacks either stellar grades OR any kind of meaningful work experience SPECIFICALLY because of such fears that I listed.
That is an ILLUSTRATION of how the OP's pal falls into a "trap of general assumptions" that very much is part of the NUMBERS GAME that one runs into when attempting to relocate to Chicago in the fresh out of collge / no experience situation...
To overcome this sort of fear in potential employers the OP's pal would be wise to take pretty much ANY KIND OF JOB THEY KIND FIND RIGHT NOW, RIGHT WHERE THEY LIVE and work there for a year or so that the potential employers in Chicago will not have to worry about bringing on some Don Draper / party animal that is an embaressment / liability ...
To be clear, this is not "bro bashing" it is REALITY -- the assumption is that if a kid is an accounting major from UofI with a 3.85 GPA who also happens to have been social chairmen of Phi Tappa Kegga they will STILL be a good employee and likely got a offer during on campus recruiting because they are appropriately goal oriented and understand how to work hard and still enjoy themselves. Kids with NO INTERNSHIPS, mediocre grades, generic major are NOT going to win over anyone in a hiring situation...
He may have worked at some part-time job during his undergrad years to pay rent/have some spending money--it didn't necessarily have to be career-oriented, just something to earn a few bucks.
This is not a "bro" issue. But it does get tiresome to hear that every little thing one does on one's time has to be career-oriented. Many college students simply "earn a living", or earn money to keep afloat, i.e driving a cab, working in a hospital, bartending, shoveling snow, raking leaves (oh the horror--manual labor) etc--a concept that seems to be foreign to some..
The issues one runs into when they decide to test things out in "the Big City" are really a function of numbers...
...if the OP said his pal is working in some kind of foodservice job or a even generic retail setting they would STILL face a whole lot of hurdles if they tried to moving a more professional setting as there is little doubt that "no internship or meaningful work experience" is the bigger negative than the possibility that this pal is some kind of beer soaked party animal.
It does not take a whole lot of creativity to just look at a calendar and say "hmmm, it is midway through SEPTEMBER, if this pal got his degree in May what the heck have they been doing?".
Believe me I have interviewed lots of fairly comptent younger people with freshly minted degrees in technical disciplines from well regarded schools and LOTS of them do have completely legitimate answers for taking the summer to explore their options. By itself, no big deal.
Some have compelling reasons for having done "subsistence" type jobs while in school. A few will even realize that their lack of an intership kind of demands an explanation, and if they have exceedingly impressive grades / recommendations from professors that vouch for their unique approach to something like an undergrad research project or even just being exceptionally dedicated to running the student labs / being a superior volunteer peer tutor or some such thing they MIGHT still get a look for jobs that usually only go to people with solid interships or other relevant experience.
Unfortunately the OP has given no indication that their pal falls into such a category and very likely is planning their move as much to keep the good times rollin' / their desire to "work in an office" instead of anything that would help differentiate them from the hordes of similarly generic recent college grads flooding into Chicago...
A friend of mine is a recent graduate from a Big Ten university and wants to move to Chicago. However, he has a BA in Sociology with a ~3.00 GPA.
No internship or meaningful work experience. Does not want to do sales. He wants a office job. What are his job prospects like?
As long as expectations aren't particularly high and you know what you are getting into in Chicago, long term there are more opportunities in this city than most to find some kind of niche. Technically working as an office-temp or mail boy/file-organizer is "office work", barriers to entry would be lower, pay would be low, possibly minimum wage but if you work hard and get to know your supervisors/coworkers professionally, let them know about your career goals and in due time they might be able to steer you to a more meaningful internship/job that is a little bit closer to what you want, etc. This is easier to do in Chicago than in most places in the United States, there are more opportunities here, just remember that who you know is more important than what you know.
If you are just going through the corporate HR hiring bureaucracy blindly of course you are not going to stand out unless you are some super type-A conformist with a perfect resume, this might not be because of some conscious conspiracy against non-conformists, non-type-A personalities, it is just that competent, intelligent people who are outside of that standard mold are harder to spot with such a large volume of applicants. Smaller companies, those who supply jobs via word of mouth and more old-school hiring practices are more likely to hire and nurture people who are smart, competent and hard working but a little different than the norm, there are more avenues like this in Chicago than most places.
Of course I don't know the OP's friend personally and nothing is ever a guarantee. I don't want this to become some lecture about chances, finances, materialism, careerism, the infallible wisdom of the modern corporate system etc. I am simply advocating someone working with what they have and how to find avenues in the workforce here in Chicago.
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This is very good advice with some EXCELLENT points!
