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paytonc - You are not the only poster on this thread who has been over in that area recently, I live not too far from it and was just at Black Beetle within the past two months. Yes, the area by Chicago and California is improving, everyone knows that, but what possible motivation would I have in lying that I've had friend that have lived over there who have had problems and those who have not. As anyone knows, just because a neighborhood is perceived as 'hip' it does not necessarily make it safe. I used to hang out in Wicker Park in 1991, it was really hip then, but certainly not safe. Those two things are seperate, many times they intersect, but not always.
Apparently someone ignored the part of my post when I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire
Btw--- there are 14 Crime Cameras in the area bordered by Hirsch to Augusta and California to Oakley. Granted, a couple are there because of Clemente H.S.,but 14 in that small an area is never a good sign.
Do I have to post the crime stats for the exact area the OP asked about?
Btw-I used to live by Armitage and Humboldt Blvd a couple of years ago. After work, I would take the North Ave bus from Harlem and walk up Humboldt from North to Armitage. Those are four blocks at 1am, that even a tough adult male like myself would have to be on guard walking up then ,and even now, in my opinion.
In fact, I drive around Chicago and California quite frequently and it is no Disneyland.
Last edited by Avengerfire; 01-06-2008 at 09:01 PM..
Well I just wanted to thank everyone for all of there input on the question that I asked; all of the comments were taking to heart. We have also have done some additional research from some friends that work as police officers and they gave us some statistics about the area, lets just say we are know longer looking in that area.
Thanks for all your help (back to the map)
Well I'm one of those people who hasn't been to Humboldt Park recently. I mean, it's been all of three weeks for me. But since the threshold to establish credibility on the issue is "yesterday" then my opinion must not count for much.
A sprinkling of hipster joints doesn't mean all is well. In fact it's almost as much a sign that it's a rough area since true hipster cred comes from testing the urban boundaries. So all it really means is that Humboldt Park may, some day, if it can ever achieve a critical mass of hipsters, see the same success as nearby areas that used to suck but don't any more. But Humboldt isn't as sure of a bet for the simple reason that most other neighborhoods currently undergoing hipsterization (Uptown, Pilsen, Logan Square) or have already undergone hipsterization-turned-gentrification (Lakeview, Lincoln Square, Roscoe Village, Andersonville) have L lines running right through them, or in Andersonville's case, a couple blocks away. The only exception I can think of is Ukranian Village. An L line is a major asset to a potential neighborhood hot spot, and one that is noticeably absent from Humboldt Park.
In fact, I drive around Chicago and California quite frequently and it is no Disneyland.
When did I say it was Disneyland? You gave some statistics that do not apply to the area, and made a statement ("they... get the hell out!") which resorted to mild profanity and which is contrary to my understanding of the area. If you read the last two paragraphs of my response, I'm hardly advising in favor of anyone moving in and investing, but I am correcting the record with regard to what is often an overlooked area. And it's deservedly overlooked: if anything, I'm perplexed as to why the "Wicker Park overflow" businesses are clustering there, rather than along, say, Armitage in Logan Square, which has cheap commercial rents, higher population density, and easier access. I know it's a lot easier for me (from Bucktown) to get to Logan than to Humboldt.
I apologize if the tone sounded patronizing or boosterish (that would be very far from the truth), but I felt that I had to spell things out in light of the alarmist statement made earlier. I specifically and humbly retract the "one of the few" comment; that was written in reference to the community area statistic, without having reviewed the first page of comments.
Frankly, I wish I could participate more often here (I think I might have something to offer: I work in urban planning, I'm heavily involved in my community, I chose to move to Chicago after a national search ten years ago, I have bicycled through all 77 community areas, I've lived at half a dozen addresses on the south and west sides, I do research for a living) but sometimes the tone here seems excessively defensive and the relentless focus on crime gets tiring. I hope that I'm wrong and will try to read more carefully, but really, I feel like I've been piled upon by several posters for no reason whatsoever (after all, I didn't post anything factually incorrect, and did not presume to make any direct recommendations) -- and not for the first time. So again, I'm sorry that I appear to have offended so many sensibilities. I was only trying to help.
I never said you said it was Disneyland. I was just stressing how I feel about the area. My post was not entirely directed towards you, otherwise I would have stated it was or quoted you.
I do not think the context in which I used the word hell should be taken as profanity. How is the word hell vulgar? I used it in the context of a figure of speech.
I was not really angered by your post, I was trying to stress some things that perhaps you overlooked. I can get very specific with crime data if you desire for that exact area.
Yeah, maybe I have beaten this area to death with numbers. But people deserve to know crime stats and info if they are looking to move into an area. Even though the OP stated they do not need anymore info,here is some more for my last word on this subject.
Here is a good sample from Beat 1311 and below is 1312 (which includes the area the OP mentioned and the area directly east of it:
Dec. 25
11 p.m. Theft
2800 block W. Walton St. Street
Dec. 25
10:30 p.m. Telephone threats
1100 block N. Mozart St. Residence
Dec. 25
3:55 p.m. Non-criminal
800 block N. Richmond St. Residence
Dec. 25
3:23 a.m. Battery
900 block N. Sacramento Blvd. Apartment
Dec. 24
11:45 p.m. Battery
800 block N. California Ave. Apartment
Dec. 24
4 p.m. Criminal damage
1000 block N. Richmond St. Street
Dec. 23
2 p.m. Battery
1100 block N. Sacramento Ave. Residence
Dec. 23
11 a.m. Burglary
1100 block N. Sacramento Ave. Apartment
Dec. 22
11:48 p.m. Criminal damage
800 block N. Mozart St. CHA parking lot/grounds
Dec. 22
7:30 p.m. Theft
2600 block W. Division St. Residence
Dec. 22
1 p.m. Theft
3000 block W. Grand Ave. Street
Dec. 22
11 a.m. Burglary
800 block N. Fairfield Ave. Apartment
Dec. 21
12:20 p.m. Theft
800 block N. Sacramento Blvd. Street
Dec. 20
6:30 p.m. Motor vehicle theft
2800 block W. Augusta Blvd. Street
Dec. 20
11 a.m. Theft
1000 block N. Francisco Ave. Street
Dec. 19
7 p.m. Motor vehicle theft
1100 block N. Francisco Ave. Street
Dec. 18
7:47 p.m. Robbery
3100 block W. Chicago Ave. Street
Dec. 18
2 p.m. Theft
2600 block W. Thomas St. Street
Dec. 18
1 p.m. Theft
900 block N. Sacramento Blvd. Street
Dec. 18
12:30 p.m. Financial identity theft
800 block N. Richmond St. Apartment
================================================== ================================================== ==========================================
Dec. 25
5 p.m. Criminal damage
900 block N. Hoyne Ave. Street
Dec. 24
11:30 p.m. Motor vehicle theft
2500 block W. Thomas St. Street
Dec. 23
7 p.m. Theft
2300 block W. Cortez St. Residence
Dec. 23
4 p.m. Theft
2300 block W. Augusta Blvd. Street
Dec. 23
2:25 p.m. Assault
2500 block W. Division St. Grocery food store
Dec. 23
2 p.m. Motor vehicle theft
800 block N. Maplewood Ave. Street
Dec. 23
11 a.m. Criminal damage
2200 block W. Chicago Ave. Residence
Dec. 22
10 p.m. Battery
2100 block W. Chicago Ave. Residence
Dec. 22
9:45 p.m. Criminal damage
2200 block W. Rice St. Street
Dec. 22
8 p.m. Burglary
900 block N. Western Ave. Barbershop
Dec. 22
noon Non-criminal
2400 block W. Chicago Ave. Apartment
Dec. 22
9 a.m. Motor vehicle theft
2100 block W. Division St. Street
Dec. 22
8:30 a.m. Burglary
2200 block W. Iowa St. Apartment
Dec. 21
9:47 p.m. Robbery
2500 block W. Iowa St. Street
Dec. 21
6:25 p.m. Assault
2400 block W. Chicago Ave. CTA bus
Dec. 21
2:45 p.m. Theft
2500 block W. Cortez St. Apartment
Dec. 21
12:33 p.m. Offenses involving children
2200 block W. Division St. Hospital building/grounds
Dec. 21
8:30 a.m. Burglary
1000 block N. Hoyne Ave. Residence
Dec. 21
12:01 a.m. Theft
2000 block W. Rice St. Residence: Garage
Dec. 21
12:01 a.m. Theft
2000 block W. Rice St. Street
I apologize if the tone sounded patronizing or boosterish (that would be very far from the truth), but I felt that I had to spell things out in light of the alarmist statement made earlier. I specifically and humbly retract the "one of the few" comment; that was written in reference to the community area statistic, without having reviewed the first page of comments.
Frankly, I wish I could participate more often here (I think I might have something to offer: I work in urban planning, I'm heavily involved in my community, I chose to move to Chicago after a national search ten years ago, I have bicycled through all 77 community areas, I've lived at half a dozen addresses on the south and west sides, I do research for a living) but sometimes the tone here seems excessively defensive and the relentless focus on crime gets tiring. I hope that I'm wrong and will try to read more carefully, but really, I feel like I've been piled upon by several posters for no reason whatsoever (after all, I didn't post anything factually incorrect, and did not presume to make any direct recommendations) -- and not for the first time. So again, I'm sorry that I appear to have offended so many sensibilities. I was only trying to help.
- Payton C.
Apology accepted. Welcome. But realize that the internet is rarely a place for civil discourse. Anonymity makes it easier to attack others without repercussions. And it also helps disguise who you're dealing with. There may be other urban planners, architects, and city officials posting on this site who are intimately connected to the development of Chicago, while others are more of the armchair quarterback type.
Ok...was browsing when we took a look at this thread and we thought we had to join after reading through. It is rather comical that most who contributed to the opnions here either drive through the area, USED to live here, knows someone who lives or used to live here....
Hence, a lot of outdated and second-hand information!
Well, WE LIVE HERE and have for several years! Specifically, we live in right smack in the middle of the blocks bordered by Western, California, North and Division. We originally purchased a new-construction condo here 4 years ago as a 'calculated risk'. We knew the neighborhood was in transition and were willing to ride the wave. The value for money, and proximity to Division Street Bars and resturants and Bucktown Boutiques was hard to resist. Great space with a fully private rooftop view of skyline...that sold us.
No we were not willing to go west of the park as we believe that this area is just not there yet and would require a longer investment (FYI. Areas east of California (East Humboldt/West Wicker) is actually not Humboldt Park....look at an official city map).
When we moved in, it was common to see the gatherings by the corners or the one guy standing outside come rain, snow, sleet, hail...of course it was obvious what he was doing.
That being said, that was the low point. Year-by-year things have become progressively better! We have always felt safe walking our dog around the neighborhood. Walking to hail a cab. Coming back from a nightout late. But of course you have to exhibit the same cautions everywhere you live in a big city! Robberies, assaults etc happen in Lincoln Park and Lakeview too! Read the reports! Graffitti is persistent in the most posh neighborhoods in the city. It's the city. We don't have one regret about our decision! So much so that we sold our condo and built a single family home a few buildings away on an empty lot....gasp...for lots away from our previous condo! See, we did not run to our old Lincoln Park neighborhood when we had a chance...this is because we saw our investment payoff!
There is a higher concentration of Section 8 housing in the area which is usually intimidating at first but in contrast to when we moved in, the Police have been really working to make this a safe and clean neighborhood.
Some points to consider:
--> I can't speak much for the real Humboldt Park (West of Kedzie) but consider the Wicker Park fringe (aka West Town/East Humboldt/West Wicker) that exists West of Western, South of North, North of Division, and East of California if you want a healthy return and more bang for your buck. Remember, West of Damen used to carry the same connotation as 'West of Western' looked what happened in 5 years! Drive around the neighborhood in question and see what is happening yourself...
--> See what is happening just East of this area and compare what you can get for your money in East Humboldt while still only being a short walk to Bucktown/Wicker Park's center!
--> Humboldt Park (The Park) is perhaps one of best kept secrets! One of the biggest with the lagoon and boathouse. This used to be dangerous but has been awesome the last few years. Come and see for yourself on a warm day, the diverse people: dog walkers, born and raised Puerto Ricans and hipsters alike...the changing face of Wicker PArk.
--> To accurately determine the reported crime in an area use: Chicago Police Department CLEAR MAP - Crime Incidents I see some suggested or are culling data from Chicagocrime.org?!? Not updated accurately, not dependable and missing a lot of info. Take a look for your self and compare both tools. The one I give (CLEARMap) is what the CPD use for their dispatches/reporting.
First, there was no "west of Damen" negative connotation 5 years ago. Infill -- not just the first signs of gentrification, but full-out infill -- had already been well underway for about a decade by then.
Second, I don't think anyone has said anything fundamentally different from what you've said, at least about the area immediately west of Western. Mostly what we've been talking about is the actual Humboldt Park -- you know, the part that even you, the big brave urban pioneer, won't go to.
Third, chicagocrime.org (now part of everyblock) references the exact same database as CPD's ClearMap. So if everyblock is inaccurate, so is the CPD CLEAR MAP. All everyblock does is present the data in a different format and store the data for longer (unfortunately, about 2 years worth of data didn't make the migration from chicagocrime to everyblock, but the webmaster says they're working on that). As for not being updated, I've never seen more than a few days lag between today's date and the available data there.
Finally, I get tired of people saying "X crime happens in this other neighborhood too!" as a way of dismissing the seriousness of the crime in some other neighborhood, as if there's no quantitative difference in crime rates and the impact it has on quality of life. Do you seriously believe anyone here is so naive as to not be aware that "robberies, assaults etc happen in Lincoln Park and Lakeview too!" ? It's as if the crime rate doesn't matter because there is no absolutely crime-free neighborhood. Sorry, not buying it. There's a reason why even you won't go to the actual Humboldt Park.
I live in the real humboldt park near north and pulaski and my block doesn't have the bickerdike riff raff that is so prevalent along with the blue lights. You certainly have more white people than on my block. The area you live in bounded by western and california and division and north has lots of mini projects which cause many of the problems, coupled with an organized puerto rican community against gentrification, hence the existence of bickerdike and hhdc. I prefer the area immediately south of there and have looked to purchase several properties southeast of norweigian american hospital. Still, I am sure you will do well appreciation-wise. I personally prefer south of division.
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