thoughts on lakeshore east (Chicago, Lincoln: transfer to, neighborhoods, construction)

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Again, the problem is complicated. There are many residential buildings in the area bounded by Michigan / Wacker / Randolph / LSD that were built way back in the Daley era. The ridiculously long process of getting the old S- curve out of Lake Shore Drive was complicated by the reliance on Federal highway fund to fix that traffic nightmare --

Similarly there is nothing "organic" about Aldermen interfering in the zoning process -- these bozos that often worry more about diapers for horses are only looking for campaign funds for their re-election NOT a genuine concern for the vitality of streets or the economic viability of a project.

People with no education or experience in zoning like alderman have no reason to be gatekeepers in this complex endeavor.

Uh, okay. You run off babbling about who lives in LSE to explain why you don't have typical 'neighborhood' type retail mixes. My point is the zoning and planning of this area prevent that type of development from occurring.

And I'm in full agreement that aldermanic privilege particularly for RE development is a terrible system that only serves as an open invitation to corruption.

[chet everett]

Hey, I am not one saying that is easy. Way back when the original elevated streets were created and the various little interior plazas and passageways were proposed the whole project should have had more detailed frameworks for what sorts of connection would be developed over time and how those things would be enforced.

Many Canadian cities have rather well designed systems of pedways that typically link up offices to retail and residential spaces. The best / nicest of these also link to transit and have a useful mix of resturants and night spots. These things do not happen without a fairly detailed vision of what is acceptable and what is not. Funny thing too is there is of course lots of disagreement over what existing residents and property owners would like to see and what the professional planners decide is really in the best interest of the future direction of the city. Of course zoning alone cannot fully control what happens -- a space that is 3000 sq ft might become a posh little sushi spot that attracts a very different clientele than some greasy poutine stand but the basic idea is that the planning and zoning has to account for either possibility.

In the case of the are bounded by the Randolph / Michigan / Wacker / LSD there is dearth of concern for "street scale" developments and ultimately that will be hard to change.

[marothisu]

Regardless of why it is the way it is - it is how it is. it doesn't matter why to the OP.

[jonnynonos]

It's worth noting that opinions vary. Some if the wealthiest people I know--worth not millions but 10s of millions, if not hundreds--have a penthouse overlooking Millenium Park. Obviously they could live anywhere.

I wouldn't particularly choose LSE either but, hey, I guess some people like the location and want a certain degree of distance from... well, everything.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

It's worth noting that opinions vary. Some if the wealthiest people I know--worth not millions but 10s of millions, if not hundreds--have a penthouse overlooking Millenium Park. Obviously they could live anywhere.

I wouldn't particularly choose LSE either but, hey, I guess some people like the location and want a certain degree of distance from... well, everything.

I agree. I don't particularly care for LSE, plenty of people seem to like it. Many that could live elsewhere.

[chet everett]

I agree that the OP probably does not care about the "why" of the area and I tend to agree to with jonnynonos that there are probably some fools that like looking out over Milleninium Park regardless of how uninviting it may be to actually have several multi-lane roadways plow under one's home --
Mod cut.

The bigger issue is, as many have chimed in with, is that in city that generally takes a lot of pride in having unique and inviting neighborhoods, the degree to which much of the newer development north of Randolph / east of Michigan is "placeless" happened in a big bad way and has not improved -- the pedways are lined with crummy franchises, even the attractive buildings (and Aqua does have visual appeal) are disconnected from their surroundings. Even other highly visible residential towers don't have weird "floating island" look and feel that the whole area increasingly does. To contrast, consider how the Hancock Building has at least attempted to devote street level / substreet level space to retail / restaurants. Again, not gonna say it is necessarily "tasteful" but it does seem at least like it contributes to the kinds of pedestrian traffic that makes Michigan Ave what it is...

Thing too is even those that should be happy to have new mostly privately funded upgrades to the area like Maggie Daley Park seem less than sanguine about just what this sort of "Disney-like" intensity of fakeness says to those in less prominent parts of Chicago --http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-maggie-daley-park-met-2-20141208-story.html

...Linda Quinones has watched from the window of her high-rise apartment on East Randolph Street as the land, once tree- and brush-covered, has been transformed. ... When you look from the top down, it looks kind of like an amusement park," said Quinones, 62. "The lights are so abstract, they look like chopsticks. Then there is the candy stripe colors on top of those... It seems they could have used some of that money to help parks in poorer neighborhoods."

The current situation of devoting park land not to traditional uses but as an enticement to increase tourism seems a very slippery slope / rationalization.


You don't have to be a modern day Mother Cabrini to wonder if maybe there are parts of Chicago that could benefit from oh, I dunno, a trauma center or something ... Frances Xavier Cabrini

Mod cut.

[rzzzz]

Personally I like Lakeshore East quite a bit. I looked at half a dozen condos in that area before deciding against leaving the area for the winter. If I decide to return I will probably buy in that area, or the South Loop.

I don't drink or even go out to eat that much, so I don't care about night life. I like to run and do other sports stuff in Grant Park and go to the Art Institute. It is within walking distance from where I worked. It's right by the lake and the river, and that new riverwalk park that is going in. It might be "touristy" but I guess the touristy spots are the parts of Chicago I like the best.

[UC18]

While I agree that it's sterile, boring, not a "real neighborhood" in the organic sense, etc., it clearly appeals to quite a lot of people. Because of that, I can't agree that the marketers were clueless. I think they knew their market quite well, and created something that appealed to it. I'm just not part of it.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by rzzzz

Personally I like Lakeshore East quite a bit. I looked at half a dozen condos in that area before deciding against leaving the area for the winter. If I decide to return I will probably buy in that area, or the South Loop.

I don't drink or even go out to eat that much, so I don't care about night life. I like to run and do other sports stuff in Grant Park and go to the Art Institute. It is within walking distance from where I worked. It's right by the lake and the river, and that new riverwalk park that is going in. It might be "touristy" but I guess the touristy spots are the parts of Chicago I like the best.

Yep. I think the people I know pull in, park, and leave to take a leisure walk or drive/cab to a very particular destination: restaurant, gym, etc. and that's it.

They don't shop, I don't think, they aren't interested in discovering some quaint cafe, they aren't running out for cleaning products.

They're either going to a nice restaurant, play or other destination.

Beyond that they are just relaxing in the penthouse.

[marothisu]

I'll put it this way - if I was settled down with someone and we didn't care about going out, especially having these options right outside of our front door but wanted to live within close proximity to downtown (or in it) in a high rise then LSE would be a good choice. I have a friend who lives in Aqua and her condo is super nice. So yes, it definitely does appeal to people and each building has some of its own amenities. Aqua has a really nice pool deck, outdoor patio space (huge), and gym. However, if you're looking for an area with outside business with activity and the ability to just easily walk 5 or less minutes to 3 dozen places, it's not yet the place. I hope it is one day but right now that's not what it is. The buildings there are still very nice.