Walmart - Good or Bad? (Chicago, Cicero: hair salon, transfer to, zoning)

[Sid and Nancy]

Originally Posted by Youcanthandlethetruth

There is a Dominick's at Chicago and Damen. That is closer than Ashland and Roosevelt.

Until the Dominick's opened on the corner of Fullerton and Sheffield a few years ago, one did have to go around two miles to get to a large chain grocery store.

Chicago and Damen is still far, over 16 blocks. I'm talking about any types of grocery stores, not just large chains. Theres a pretty decent local grocery store on Clark, just north of fullerton that has been opened for years. Madison and California has nothing. The closet thing you will find to a grocery store is a gas station that sells cheetos and twinkies. That is a food desert.

[Sid and Nancy]

Originally Posted by Youcanthandlethetruth

You really think so? Maybe if you are handicapped or old and can't get around well.

Wow, I travel to Target all the time which is over 16 blocks from where I live and I do not complain about it.

It's far enough to called a food desert. In a city of 3 million people not having a grocery store for 2-3 miles is far. Out in the exburbs or even suburbs, not so much. I think most people would agree that having to travel 2-3 miles each way for groceries is too much. Hell, many consider traveling 2 miles to a bar is too far, hence the reason why so many choose to pay higher rents to live in Wrigleyville and Wicker park, as opposed to neighboring areas.

[Sid and Nancy]

Originally Posted by Youcanthandlethetruth

I do not think it was always that way around Madison and California. You do have to remember that the areas around it were once very industrial and for years there were many vacant lots (and there still are many.) The area had been in decline for 40 years.

I think a few large grocery stores that were close to there closed in the last few years.

You mentioned the area is getting a couple new grocery stores soon so what is the issue?

The issue is whether food deserts are a myth or not. There are clearly areas in Chicago that are lacking in grocery stores. I think once Pete's does open it will fill a much needed void and actually do well. As far as Walmart is concerned, I don't care much for it. I rarely go, less than once a year, and when I do I often regret it. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Low quality goods from China, disorganized shelves, mediocre prices, rude customers, and long lines. I'll pass.

[Humboldt1]

Isn't there a moo and oink at madison and pulaski? That is 12 blocks, closer than 16.

I agree there is a food desert in some areas but it is much smaller than people think. There is an Aldis at Chicago and Kedzie, also 12 blocks away.

[Humboldt1]

You are right about the Moo and Oink, at Cicero.

Still, Aldis is at 800 N Kedzie, 12 blocks away. I think it is a bit of a stretch to call an area a food desert when there is a grocery store 1.5 miles away. Not everything is going to be within walking distance.

Also, note that these "food desert" areas have fairly low populations. East Garfield Park used to have around 50-60K people. Now, there are around 19K. Same is true for the areas just east of there. Not a whole lot of people live in homes in the parking lots that surround United Center.

You need density to justify having grocery stores only a few blocks away, so it isn't just that the residents are poor it is that there really aren't that many of them in these areas.

Humboldt Park, while poor, has density, especially as you approach Logan Square to the north. Hence, you have grocery stores to service the people living there.

There is also a cultural difference among hispanics and blacks. I find anecdotally that hispanics (particularly first generation Mexicans) are more into fresh produce and less processed foods. Hence, there are a number of Cermak, Tony's, and Carniceria Jimenez in these areas. You just don't see this in really poor black areas with low densities.

I think it is fair to say that ALL the food deserts in Chicago have majority black populations. It isn't just a poverty thing as there are many poor hispanic neighborhoods with grocery stores. But, as I stated before it is more of a density thing, not a race thing. You need to have so many customers within a certain radius to justify a store. Some of the poorest black majority areas (East Garfield Park for example) have low densities and low populations so even if these were nice areas, few grocers would profit by opening stores there.

Pete's, btw is holding off opening their store at Madison and Western as they have other projects in the works that are more profitable and are sitting on the property for a few years until the area fills in more. Basically, they have concluded that there are not enough present residents to justify building a store there. Again, it is all about density.

[temp2290]

While my stance is firmly anti-Walmart, the people of Chicago should ultimately decide what stores they want or don't want in their area. Any other method is undemocratic.

[absolutely]

Originally Posted by temp2290

While my stance is firmly anti-Walmart, the people of Chicago should ultimately decide what stores they want or don't want in their area. Any other method is undemocratic.

yeah, but wouldn't it be nice if that's all it took to stop development? to just disagree? most political decisions are undemocratic, until a large enough group of people more than simply disagree. pacifism is a setback.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by temp2290

While my stance is firmly anti-Walmart, the people of Chicago should ultimately decide what stores they want or don't want in their area. Any other method is undemocratic.

If this method was employed on a variety of issues in this country, it would be in much better shape and we would have a whole lot more freedom.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by temp2290

While my stance is firmly anti-Walmart, the people of Chicago should ultimately decide what stores they want or don't want in their area. Any other method is undemocratic.

Exactly, but that's what Chicago is...undemocratic. Mono-party rule of any type means that the decisions are made by the powerful interests behind the scenes.

They kept walmart out to benefit the exisiting stores hold on consumers. I wonder who owns those stores?

About 12 years ago they tried to run one of the water taxi guys out of business with inspections and red tape. When that failed, he was killed professionally while leaving work and I don't think they ever charged anyone. The rival water taxi had city and mob ties....go figure.

I remember the Todd Stroger debacle too. Voters were so outraged he only beat the republican by a small landslide...with mayor Daley basically threatening to "terminate the political career" of dems that didn't back Stroger. lol.

I share stories like this with my friend from beijing and it reminds him of home.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

...I remember the Todd Stroger debacle too. Voters were so outraged he only beat the republican by a small landslide...with mayor Daley basically threatening to "terminate the political career" of dems that didn't back Stroger. lol...

What small landslide? Stroger won by the skin on his teeth.

The people with sense in the burbs voted 60% for Peraica.

Meanwhile the morons in the city voted 69% for Stroger.