Raising kids in the city (Chicago, Schaumburg: 2014, neighborhood, public school)

[TheSunshineKid]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

I think the biggest issue for White parents with the public schools is if they comfortable to mix their kids with the Black and Hispanic kids. Which is why they want to put their kids in private schools.

The advantage of mixing your kids with other races is they become less xenophobic and more masculine. They'll be more street smart. They won't be afraid to "walk around" a Hispanic neighborhood and such.

Okay.

Originally Posted by emathias

While I'm sure race does play a role I don't think it is "the biggest" issue for white parents. There are plenty of working class white residents whose kids go to public school in Chicago.

I think there are three much bigger driving forces for parents who choose to send their kids to private schools, regardless of race:

1) While the magnet schools do well in school evaluations, the average high school in Chicago shows very poorly in school rankings. Parents who can afford to send their kids to schools with a better reputation want their kids to go somewhere with a better track record of education because not only is the education itself valuable, doing well at a school with a good reputation improves their child's chances of getting into a highly selective university than doing well at a school with a poor reputation.

2) Safety. Average public high schools in Chicago are viewed by many parents as having, shall we say, "less than ideal" levels of safety both in and near the schools. Some portion of that is perception, but some portion of that is reality.

3) Similar to reason 1), parents of means understand that "steel sharpens steel," and having their kids educated with other kids who come from families with a strong emphasis on education, strong parental involvement, and strong push toward achievement means that their kids will learn more from their peers at such a school. Along with this is a the idea of "connections" that a child will make with other families of means.

(3) Is straight out of "How Northeast parents view high school" hand book, if ever a hand book existed, or "How parents from middle class means can make their kid into an Ivy League graduate."

You also forgot to mention high schools that send their kids to highly selective schools tend to have relationships with the schools where their students matriculate to. The school's academic advisers know how to package the students that they deem are competitive for admissions. Not only that but resources for summer programs are also available for those that want it; add in a curriculum that supports a "most difficult" label from advisers when sending in transcripts, you get a batch of students ready for admittance.


Besides Northside Prep, Whitney Young Magnet and St. Ignatius finding schools inside Chicago that annually sends their students to highly selective universities is a challenge. One would have to travel to the suburbs and enter high schools like New Trier and Hinsdale to find a so-called "feeder" school. But even then, Illinois high schools aren't known to send to their kids to, say, the Ivies - just a handful of many elites - like Exeter (NH), Phillips Academy (Mass.) and St. Ann's (Brooklyn) would.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

I think the biggest issue for White parents with the public schools is if they comfortable to mix their kids with the Black and Hispanic kids. Which is why they want to put their kids in private schools.

The advantage of mixing your kids with other races is they become less xenophobic and more masculine. They'll be more street smart. They won't be afraid to "walk around" a Hispanic neighborhood and such.

Personally, I doubt the education system is much to do with it. I believe dumb kids are caused by dumb parents. So if kids are dumb, that's more the fault of the parents than the public schools.

I don't think the problem is white parents wanting to send their kids to school with black or Hispanic kids, the problem is white (or black, or Hispanic) parents wanting to send their kids to a school where the kids have no discipline at home, which makes them a problem in the school, which makes for a crappy learning environment.

When you have parents who don't care about their kids schooling, you can hardly expect the kids to take it seriously either, regardless of skin color.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

It's pretty easy and a lot of fun. My kids are freaked out when we have to go out to the suburbs. As do my wife and I. Our kids go to an attendance area CPS elementary school. We love it. High School is the issue. There are very few acceptable non selective enrollment HSs.

You and your kids are "freaked out" by the suburbs?

Interesting, I've often heard that one of the supposed benefits of raising your kids in the city is that they learn to be more open-minded and don't become steeped in precisely this sort of reactionary provincialism.

[Ace Rothstein]

Originally Posted by NealIRC

I think the biggest issue for White parents with the public schools is if they comfortable to mix their kids with the Black and Hispanic kids. Which is why they want to put their kids in private schools.

The advantage of mixing your kids with other races is they become less xenophobic and more masculine. They'll be more street smart. They won't be afraid to "walk around" a Hispanic neighborhood and such.

Personally, I doubt the education system is much to do with it. I believe dumb kids are caused by dumb parents. So if kids are dumb, that's more the fault of the parents than the public schools.

Most of the Catholic high schools on the south side are quite mixed, moreso than the average CPS high school on the south side. People are sending their kids to private schools because CPS high schools, outside of a select few, are ****ing awful.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by Drover

You and your kids are "freaked out" by the suburbs?

Interesting, I've often heard that one of the supposed benefits of raising your kids in the city is that they learn to be more open-minded and don't become steeped in precisely this sort of reactionary provincialism.

Grass, trees, parks, open fields, fresh air--pretty intimidating....

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by MassVt

Grass, trees, parks, open fields, fresh air--pretty intimidating....

What's not to love? (I know, this is not all suburbs, but this is the type of suburbia I have no desire to ever live in again)

[chet everett]

In fairness that scene is from a stretch of Rt 59 where there is an abundance of industrial parks and retail centers. The only significant residential development near there is a few quasi-transit oriented developments that are mostly RENTALS for folks that want to walk to Metra but not much else. It would be akin to posting something from the industrial parks and retail strips near Ford City, hardly representative of the best in "city living"....

Folks that choose Naperville are doing so for feature like Centennial Beach --

Or the Riverwalk --


Or just a nice home surrounded with mature trees --

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by emathias

While I'm sure race does play a role I don't think it is "the biggest" issue for white parents. There are plenty of working class white residents whose kids go to public school in Chicago.

I think there are three much bigger driving forces for parents who choose to send their kids to private schools, regardless of race:

1) While the magnet schools do well in school evaluations, the average high school in Chicago shows very poorly in school rankings. Parents who can afford to send their kids to schools with a better reputation want their kids to go somewhere with a better track record of education because not only is the education itself valuable, doing well at a school with a good reputation improves their child's chances of getting into a highly selective university than doing well at a school with a poor reputation.

2) Safety. Average public high schools in Chicago are viewed by many parents as having, shall we say, "less than ideal" levels of safety both in and near the schools. Some portion of that is perception, but some portion of that is reality.

3) Similar to reason 1), parents of means understand that "steel sharpens steel," and having their kids educated with other kids who come from families with a strong emphasis on education, strong parental involvement, and strong push toward achievement means that their kids will learn more from their peers at such a school. Along with this is a the idea of "connections" that a child will make with other families of means.

Plenty? CPS is only 9% white non-Hispanic, and I'd bet a good chunk of that number is at magnet schools (like Payton College Prep) or gentrifying schools in wealthy north side neighborhoods (like Nettlehorst). Schools in traditional white working class areas, like Portage Park, are becoming increasingly Hispanic and less white non-Hispanic.

I mean, here's one school which has absolutely no white kids. Not a single freakin' one!

BRONZEVILLE SCHOLASTIC HS: Race/Ethnicity

So I don't know if I'd say plenty. To say that ignores some very real issues that we're facing.

I do agree with your other points though. A lot of poorer parents are leaving the City for the suburbs due to #2. And a lot of parents of means get very worried about #3. They also probably understand that a situation where their kids are ones of means when all the others around them are not is not ideal.

Bottom line is we need more economically and racially integrated schools. But because of the points you raise, it won't happen on its own.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Plenty? CPS is only 9% white non-Hispanic, and I'd bet a good chunk of that number is at magnet schools (like Payton College Prep) or gentrifying schools in wealthy north side neighborhoods (like Nettlehorst). Schools in traditional white working class areas, like Portage Park, are becoming increasingly Hispanic and less white non-Hispanic.

I mean, here's one school which has absolutely no white kids. Not a single freakin' one!

BRONZEVILLE SCHOLASTIC HS: Race/Ethnicity

So I don't know if I'd say plenty. To say that ignores some very real issues that we're facing.

I do agree with your other points though. A lot of poorer parents are leaving the City for the suburbs due to #2. And a lot of parents of means get very worried about #3. They also probably understand that a situation where their kids are ones of means when all the others around them are not is not ideal.

Bottom line is we need more economically and racially integrated schools. But because of the points you raise, it won't happen on its own.

On a similar note, I live in the Schurz High School attendance boundary, which happens to include most of Portage Park. I know a local kid who goes there so I thought I'd ask him about his experiences there. I asked him how many white kids go there, and he said he's 1 in 5.

"You mean about 20 pecent?"

"No, I mean I'm one of the five total."

" . . ."

BTW anyone who thinks racism is a one-way street ought to have a chat with this kid about his experiences there some day. Maybe it's a chicken/egg thing but I don't exactly blame any white family who isn't eager to send their kid there.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Drover

BTW anyone who thinks racism is a one-way street ought to have a chat with this kid about his experiences there some day. Maybe it's a chicken/egg thing but I don't exactly blame any white family who isn't eager to send their kid there.

Very true. People forget this given all the energy we focus on discrimination against dominated groups. Kids are mean, and people who are different get treated poorly generally in elementary and high school. Throw envy into the mix and the results could be devastating.