ok what is this racial tension i'm reading about regarding chicago? (Clinton: gated, work)

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Chiguy1957

Hmmm...could someone define the boundaries of "Irving Park"? Aren't Irving and Old Irving 2 distinctly different neighborhoods?

Well there is the community Irving Park also of course. That would encompass the areas that are not in Old Irving Park. When you are in Old Irving Park you can tell by the type of houses. However, some of them where torn down early on and now the area around them could not be considered "Old Irving Park" anymore.


Lookoutboy:

Only 600k for historic houses in Old Irving Park? No. Try 1 mill to 3 mill.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Chiguy1957

Hmmm...could someone define the boundaries of "Irving Park"? Aren't Irving and Old Irving 2 distinctly different neighborhoods?

Old Irving Park is a sub-set of the official Irving Park community, much like Wrigleyville is a sub-set of the official Lake View community. Here is a map of the official Irving Park community; Old Irving Park is comprised roughly of the triangle formed by Addison to the south, the Kennedy to the east and the railroad tracks to the west. Arguably, Pulaski forms the eastern border, but the larger single-family homes tend to be on the other side of the Kennedy.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Drover

Old Irving Park is a sub-set of the official Irving Park community, much like Wrigleyville is a sub-set of the official Lake View community. Here is a map of the official Irving Park community; Old Irving Park is comprised roughly of the triangle formed by Addison to the south, the Kennedy to the east and the railroad tracks to the west. Arguably, Pulaski forms the eastern border, but the larger single-family homes tend to be on the other side of the Kennedy.

Although you are mostly correct, I have to disagree slightly. "Wrigleyville" has ever changing borders and is a relatively new invention (in the last 25 years.)

Old Irving Park is and should be very well defined (whether by housing type and age of said housing or by the original town map) since Irving Park was an actual town before the annex.

Maybe using the example of Norwood Park in comparision to the Norwood Park community would be better.

[Chiguy1957]

Ah, thanks. I always thought of the Six Corners area as being Old Irving, never realizing the larger area went so far east.

[Drover]

Six Corners is technically in Portage Park; I think the area residents also generally consider it so.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Chiguy1957

Ah, thanks. I always thought of the Six Corners area as being Old Irving, never realizing the larger area went so far east.

Well the edges of Greyland (part of Irving Park but obsolete in terms of neighborhood designation on its own although the metra stop that is located in it is still called Greyland) and Irving Park end at Cicero in the southern area of those respective areas .

I am sure at one time the Six Corners area was not officially in any town or neighborhood. It was a crossroads area. At one time however, Portage Park was called West Irving Park!

The whole history is similar to the Ravenswood arguement....

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Drover

Six Corners is technically in Portage Park; I think the area residents also generally consider it so.

For the most part I would agree that part of the Portage Park neighborhood is located in the Irving Park community. It is too bad there are not official or historically agreed upon boundaries for most neighborhoods. These issues provide for many problems.

[Drover]

Well actually it seems area residents are pretty clear on where Irving Park stops and Portage Park starts, and it follows the official community borders. Cross under the railroad tracks along Irving Park Road and you immediately see a sign saying "Welcome to Portage Park."

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by Drover

Well actually it seems area residents are pretty clear on where Irving Park stops and Portage Park starts, and it follows the official community borders. Cross under the railroad tracks along Irving Park Road and you immediately see a sign saying "Welcome to Portage Park."

Well I checked the official city community map so you would be correct community wise. I never have scrutized some specific parts of community maps until rather recently.

All I am saying is at one time all of Portage Park was considered Irving Park or West Irving Park, but the community map is indeed the authority for well over 6o years and is recognized by the city.

When I was a kid in Portage Park we actually never looked at the Six Corners area being in Portage Park or anywhere else, it was just an area that fell in a gray area. If anything, we thought Portage Park the neighborhood ended at Cicero.

I can accept the boundaries as the viaduct, neighborhood wise even, even if it is not entirely correct historically or is in dispute.

[Lookout Kid]

Old Irving is absolutely gorgeous.

Anyway, home prices HAVE risen in Irving Park quite a bit faster than inflation. It's gentrifying--just slowly. The same goes for Albany Park to the north and Avondale to the south. None of these are hip destination neighborhoods yet (though I do know of a few hipster bars in Avondale). I don't think they'll ever be Bucktown. But the income levels of the families moving in are higher than they were ten years ago. I'll be quite interested to see the census data come 2010 (or a couple of years later when it's all available). I think there will be a significant demographic change illustrated. Right now we only have anecdotal evidence to back anything up.

What does this have to do with being a friendly place for African Americans? Maybe nothing. Though it does seem to me that working class neighborhoods typically have more overt racism. And some might argue that upper class white areas have more hidden racism... Gentrification and rising real estate do also tend to raise neighborhood tensions, but perhaps the awareness of this hasn't peaked yet in Irving Park.