Can the Sox make Chicago a competitive 2 team city? (home, layoffs)

[beaniemac]

Originally Posted by MassVt

The White Sox did win a World Series recently, in 2005, and they really weren't that bad this year, so...

The ChiSox have a limited geographic market, really just the South Side, and NW Indiana. The Cubs' territory includes much of northern and central IL, a bit of southern WI, and half the state of Iowa, if one believes the baseball demographers. The White Sox will always be the 2nd choice, but they can still compete.
They might have to do something about the atmosphere around the Cell, though..

the cubs being carried almost exclusively on WGN for decades certainly helped them build such a massive fan base at a time when the sox were pretty much on cable only back in the day. I know that's why I always watched the cubs as a kid. my tv only had the antennae, so the cubs were the only thing I could watch in my room in the summer months.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by sargeant79

My $0.02 as a Sox fan...

The sizes of the fan base for both the Cubs and Sox have ebbed and flowed over the decades, with both teams having their years where they were more popular than the other. Attendance figures are often the best barometer of this. In the late 70's and during much of the 80's, Wrigley Field struggled to see half its seats filled. In the 50's and much of the 60's, they'd struggle to get 10,000 fans per game. And of course, the Sox had plenty of lean years in the late 60's and 70's themselves. The last 25 years has mostly seen the Cubs outdrawing the Sox, but there are several years in there where attendance figures are very close.

As another poster pointed out, the difference is primarily in the reach of the Cubs' fan base. Within the city and suburbs of Chicago, both teams have a fairly equal number of hardcore fans, although that number has been dwindling for the Sox in the last few years as more people are getting pissed off with their approach. But when it comes to casual fans, the Cubs have the Sox beat by a landslide. Most people who just want to catch a game and don't live and die with the team tend to be Cubs fans, and that pushes the numbers of their fans way over the top.

Plus, the Cubs have a much larger base outside the Chicago area. This is largely due to the Cubs being nationally televised on WGN for all those years while the White Sox made one of the most colossal marketing blunders of all time by putting their games on pay TV at a time when no one had cable.

The Sox missed a golden opportunity the last few years to take advantage of the Cubs being bad, but instead wound up sucking just as bad as the Cubs while actually still trying to contend, which is actually really depressing. But the result is that the hardcore Sox fans are becoming more and more disenfranchised while casual fans have no reason to even pay any attention to the Sox. The Sox can certainly gain some ground over the next decade or so if they actually wind up being good in that time frame, but it's going to take the Cubs being bad again on top of it for the mix of fans to even approach a 50/50 split. Never say never, but I really doubt they have an opportunity to ever overtake the Cubs in popularity on a permanent basis.

The Cubs are very unique in baseball in this regard. How they got there is complicated. WGN and its wide reach, Harry Carey, the cute lovable loser and curse stuff, the gentrification of Lakeview, maintaining a charming old ballpark in a vibrant neighborhood when almost everyone else was building sterile carcentric ball malls. All of these things were factors in making the Cubs as much a tourist attraction as a baseball team.

The vast majority of teams in the major leagues are like the White Sox and have to win in order to draw fans. But now, due to revenue sharing and other sweet deals from MLB Network, ESPN and others, drawing fans is no longer the primary focus. There are teams content with being mediocre. Unfortunately, we seem to have one of those on the south side.

[UnderTheLiveOaks]

I wasn't sure this thread was serious. Maybe because I can still vividly remember the confetti raining down from the buildings along LaSalle as a million people cheered on the Sox after they won the World Series 11 years ago. My office closed down at noon and everyone went to the parade.

Even as recently as 2010, the Sox were drawing 27k a game, and even on down years they outdraw programs like Cleveland and Tampa Bay, proving that just because you win games doesn't mean you draw huge crowds.

Plus, do you guys not know any Sox fans? I'm a Cubs guy, but I know dozens of die hard White Sox fans.

Sure, the Sox don't have the brand that the Cubs do, but who does? Cubs are probably in the top five when it comes to brands in baseball, no? (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, and maybe Giants or Braves in there too?)

[Kmanshouse]

Trying to "compete" with the Cubs for fanbase is a losing battle for the Sox. It's a battle they shouldn't even pick. Instead, the Sox should just try to be the best Sox they can be, get better, draw some more fans to the park, win more games. That's all they should be concerned about.

And honestly, that's probably all they DO care about. It's really the trash talking fans that care the most.

I do find it insulting when I hear Cub fans giggle at the Sox smaller fan base, or laugh down at us when certain media outlets FORGET WE WON THE THING 11 YEARS AGO....That really does **** me off, but it's not because they have more fans or that they are better. It's just the lack of respect.

[Dport7674]

Originally Posted by BRU67

The vast majority of teams in the major leagues are like the White Sox and have to win in order to draw fans. But now, due to revenue sharing and other sweet deals from MLB Network, ESPN and others, drawing fans is no longer the primary focus.

This.

The Cubs have more diehard fans than most teams.

But they also have more 'I love going to Wrigley. I own a Cubs shirt!' type fans than most teams.

[It'sAutomatic]

Until the large number of Sox fans get over their inferiority complex, they'll be intolerable.

[edsg25]

What about off-the-field issues? I'm thinking ballpark. Not knowing what I should really call it, I'll go with "Comiskey" and it is way down the list of MLB parks in creating the type of environment baseball fans seek. There is no question that their ballpark hurts the Sox.

[Dport7674]

How many ballparks are tourist destinations?

Everyone I know in the Midwest has been to Wrigley a few times.. A couple people I know have been to Comiskey.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by edsg25

What about off-the-field issues? I'm thinking ballpark. Not knowing what I should really call it, I'll go with "Comiskey" and it is way down the list of MLB parks in creating the type of environment baseball fans seek. There is no question that their ballpark hurts the Sox.

Unfortunately, the Cell was one of the last "stadium style" baseball parks, which assumed that fans would drive to games and leave once the game was over. That means acres of pavement surrounding the stadium, which is not aesthetically pleasing, nor conducive to people wanting to stick around and explore. Many baseball stadiums built after that - Busch Stadium II, Camden Yards, Jacobs Field, PNC Park, etc., recognized the value of building a park in a dense urban area where there is stuff to do before and after the game.

And the White Sox do seem to want to get people the hell out of the area as soon as possible. For example, you will get kicked out of the Bullpen Sports Bar within a half hour of the last out. Then when you walk outside, there's really nowhere to go, unless you walk over to Halsted or wedge yourself into the Bacardi Club, or whatever they're calling that now.

If the Sox were smart, they'd take a chunk of that parking area where the old park was and turn that into a strip of bars, restaurants and green space.

[eaton53]

Here's a fandom map.

Here's Facebook's 2015 MLB Fandom Map

Basically it's like this... no one outside Chicagoland cares about the Sox.