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Old 12-29-2016, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Below 59th St
672 posts, read 748,845 times
Reputation: 1407

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There was an interesting study cited in the Atlantic yesterday, speaking specifically about partisans on the Right flat-out refusing to accept any kind of data that contradicts their narrative. Even if the data are overwhelming and conclusions are a matter of simple deduction.

To these people unions are the devil, taxes cause unemployment and destroy lives, and Democrats are a conspiracy of lazy slobs and criminals trying to shake down the Righteous. These things are articles of faith.

Nothing, repeat nothing, anybody does or says will convince them otherwise. Rush, Fox and Breitbart have constructed a fantasy for them and they're going to live it. It would hurt far to much to concede they're wrong.

The sea could literally rise to swallow their houses and our crops could die en masse, but they'll still call climate change a socialist hoax.

My point being: you won't convince the conservatives here that Illinois is anything other than hell. Do your heart a favour and let them go.

I'd add, however, that it's perplexing to see ex Illinoisians stomping around places like here and the Tribune comment section. It's like their emigrant happiness isn't enough; they need to complain and snark. It's weird.

 
Old 12-29-2016, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
5,649 posts, read 5,888,925 times
Reputation: 8316
Quote:
Originally Posted by compactspace View Post
There was an interesting study cited in the Atlantic yesterday, speaking specifically about partisans on the Right flat-out refusing to accept any kind of data that contradicts their narrative. Even if the data are overwhelming and conclusions are a matter of simple deduction.

To these people unions are the devil, taxes cause unemployment and destroy lives, and Democrats are a conspiracy of lazy slobs and criminals trying to shake down the Righteous. These things are articles of faith.

Nothing, repeat nothing, anybody does or says will convince them otherwise. Rush, Fox and Breitbart have constructed a fantasy for them and they're going to live it. It would hurt far to much to concede they're wrong.

The sea could literally rise to swallow their houses and our crops could die en masse, but they'll still call climate change a socialist hoax.

My point being: you won't convince the conservatives here that Illinois is anything other than hell. Do your heart a favour and let them go.

I'd add, however, that it's perplexing to see ex Illinoisians stomping around places like here and the Tribune comment section. It's like their emigrant happiness isn't enough; they need to complain and snark. It's weird.
It is hell. And that's the primary reason people are fleeing en masse.


Don't you get it? People don't leave just because they "don't like it". People flee for various reasons. Shall we count the ways IL is hell? 1) ridiculous property taxes 2) ridiculous tolls 3) crumbling roads 4) horrid schools 5) soaring crime 6) corruption 7) supporting illegal immigration 8) violation of Constitutional rights 9) high COL 10) racism 11) job losses 12) soaring debt


All of the above literally PLAGUE Chicago, and will continue to do so as long as you boneheads continue to vote blue. Its like you never learn your damn lessons!!! So go ahead and laugh that you find it funny how conservatives flee the hell that IL/CHI has become. We expats are the ones laughing at you clowns, with your forced smiles, as you wave from decks of the Titanic. We've already taken the lifeboats outta there because we were smart to see the disaster IL was about to become, and HAS become.
 
Old 12-29-2016, 09:18 AM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,143,171 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by compactspace View Post
There was an interesting study cited in the Atlantic yesterday, speaking specifically about partisans on the Right flat-out refusing to accept any kind of data that contradicts their narrative. Even if the data are overwhelming and conclusions are a matter of simple deduction.

To these people unions are the devil, taxes cause unemployment and destroy lives, and Democrats are a conspiracy of lazy slobs and criminals trying to shake down the Righteous. These things are articles of faith.

Nothing, repeat nothing, anybody does or says will convince them otherwise. Rush, Fox and Breitbart have constructed a fantasy for them and they're going to live it. It would hurt far to much to concede they're wrong.

The sea could literally rise to swallow their houses and our crops could die en masse, but they'll still call climate change a socialist hoax.

My point being: you won't convince the conservatives here that Illinois is anything other than hell. Do your heart a favour and let them go.

I'd add, however, that it's perplexing to see ex Illinoisians stomping around places like here and the Tribune comment section. It's like their emigrant happiness isn't enough; they need to complain and snark. It's weird.
I wholeheartedly agree. I understand they're far-right people that have been trained to repeat Rush/Fox/Brietbart talking points. I don't engage in these discussions to convince people like Bella per se. We all know that's a lost cause. I do so to prevent them from brainwashing other people. People need to see the DATA or they are susceptible to emotional MANIPULATION by people who don't actually have their interest at heart. LBJ said it best, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." The "colored man" could replaced with "democrats" these days. The GOP has been working on a Republican Newscast since the days of Nixon. Roger Ailes first discussed the idea to Nixon back in the 70s.

A bit off topic, but the irony of people being against Obamacare but supporting the Affordable Care Act tells us all we need to know about Americans and their political beliefs. They view it like sports. MY SIDE HAS TO WIN, REGARDLESS OF IT HURTING ME IN THE LONG RUN!

I agree it is perplexing to see people lurking around these forums after relocating. You'd think with their lives being so great on the other side they'd be out ENJOYING their new homes. Instead they feel the need to return to online platforms as internet Evangelist.
 
Old 12-29-2016, 09:25 AM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,143,171 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamadiddle View Post
Agree if you live within the city limits, but in our situation, we moved back from the Atlanta suburbs where we were paying 6% income tax, 7% sales tax and gas prices/utilities are nearly identical. I transferred two vehicles from Georgia to Illinois and surprisingly only had to pay $196 total per vehicle for plates and the title transfer fee. The Property taxes are really the only difference between the two locations, but those are deductible against federal income tax, essentially giving you a 30% discount so it's not as bad as it initially looks.

Florida may be cheaper overall, but there's nothing comparable to Chicago in Florida. Down the road we may do the snowbird thing and have a place in both locations. Summer in Chicago and Winter in Florida sounds nice to me.
She's wrong, Flamadiddle. Florida is not any cheaper than Illinois, even with Illinois' tax burden factored in. Incomes are higher here. Retirees from the north flock to Florida in part because they made their money in places like Illinois and then "hide" it in low-tax havens like Florida. There's a reason many people wait until they're RETIRED to move to places like Florida. There's less economic opportunity. 13 percent of people in Illinois live in poverty. It's just shy of 17 percent in Florida. Don't get all worked up Bella, I'm not saying there's no economic opportunity in Florida, just less than Illinois. Specifically for SKILLED labor. As I always say, there are always a few exceptions.

https://www.missourieconomy.org/indi...ving/index.stm
 
Old 12-29-2016, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
5,749 posts, read 10,315,838 times
Reputation: 7009
Of course I'm staying. I can make a heck of a lot of money in this state, with a relatively low COL. There is a ton of business opportunity here - it is limitless. I can't keep up with it. And I enjoy the intelligence and work ethic of my Illinois associates.

I like the 4 seasons here. I like that I have easy train/road access to a big city, open spaces/ forest/ country, and a great lake for recreational activities. And I can easily hop on a plane to go anywhere at any time, for business or pleasure. My kids can attend top schools (and I am comparing them nationally) which qualify them for top colleges.

I like having easy access to some of the best and most diverse food, music, art, architecture, shopping, museums, sports, theater, universities in the world... I like that I can meet lots of different types of people from lots of different types of backgrounds, cultures, and interests...
 
Old 12-29-2016, 11:40 AM
 
Location: In the heights
36,834 posts, read 38,651,057 times
Reputation: 20855
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerseusVeil View Post
Downtown St. Louis' population has grown, but downtown needs to do a better job at attracting new residents while retaining and growing businesses (hell, a second CVS would be nice...). Downtown will take some time to fully hit its stride, especially in comparison to the rest of the country, but I do have faith. Right now downtown is looking at the Cupples X office building, Ballpark Village Phase II which includes an apartment building an an additional office tower, the completion of the CityArchRiver project, including the Arch grounds renovation, the renovation of Union Station into a Navy Pier like environment with a ferris wheel and large aquarium, and quite possible the building of a major league soccer stadium immediately west of Union Station. Ballpark Village Phase III will also quite possibly be announced next year. It really feels like downtown is turning a corner, but I'm scared that I'll jinx it.

As for East St. Louis, it's screwed, and it's going to stay that way for decades to come. St. Louis currently does not have enough momentum to stabilize its northern half, let alone East St. Louis. South St. Louis, at least at the 2010 Census, was also declining, but in a different way. It's not entirely gentrified out, and there remain quite a few rough neighborhoods, but the ones that were gentrifying were seeing decreased population sizes as couples converted buildings that had formerly multiple units into one SFH. The Central Corridor was the part of town showing gains. Whether South City has changed that in the last 5 years, I don't know, but I also remain hopeful.

If the NGA helps to stabilize part of North St. Louis, downtown rounds that corner, and the city gets a handle on crime, this will help the Metro East, but Illinois is also going to have to step up. As the state's finances continue to be a headache felt by nearly 13 million people, many in the Metro East will see greener grass in Missouri. St. Louis might be able to stabilize the Metro East, but Illinois will have to improve in order to help grow it again.
It may end up easier for Metro East to stabilize than most of North St. Louis. Across the river from Metro East is a major job center and it's easily accessible by rail as are the job centers further west along that same rail corridor. Meanwhile, property values and rents are basically tanked in Metro East which makes it affordable for the working class. It does require that downtown St. Louis really turn the corner, but that doesn't seem that impossible. Granted, this isn't going to be a quick fix at all.
 
Old 12-29-2016, 01:14 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,688 posts, read 3,145,466 times
Reputation: 2743
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It may end up easier for Metro East to stabilize than most of North St. Louis. Across the river from Metro East is a major job center and it's easily accessible by rail as are the job centers further west along that same rail corridor. Meanwhile, property values and rents are basically tanked in Metro East which makes it affordable for the working class. It does require that downtown St. Louis really turn the corner, but that doesn't seem that impossible. Granted, this isn't going to be a quick fix at all.
I agree, but I probably should have been more specific with my previous post. The Metro East isn't monolithic, and much of it only started to see declines within the last few years. Many of the area's problems are problems shared by the rest of the State of Illinois. A stronger St. Louis would indeed help the region, but it's worth noting that St. Louis, even in its current state, was able to help grow every single Missouri county in the metro. A stronger St. Louis with no change from Illinois might actually entice people to jump ship to Missouri. Much of the Metro East is inexpensive, but Missouri is hardly lacking in that regard either.

What the Illinois side can leverage is a lower cost of living in terms of home prices with shorter commute distances to downtown by car. Large swathes of the Metro East are only 20 minutes from downtown St. Louis after all. The trouble is taxes. Whether rightly or wrongly, many view Missouri as being less expensive thanks to taxes.

As for the Metro East stabilizing as a whole it certainly is possible. There are plenty of bright spots. Even Belleville could easily be stabilized, although I will be curious as to what the lower socio-economic bracket Belleville on the west end will mean for the whole city. When I was growing up it was more decidedly middle class. That has changed. Fairview Heights will take even less to fix than Belleville. It's lost some population, but it's the shopping heart of the Metro East. It's home to virtually every big box store you can think of, in addition to a large mall. It took some hits during the recession, but the shopping isn't going anywhere. Towns like Swansea, Shiloh, and O'Fallon, which run up against places like Belleville & Fairview are all growing. What's most likely hurting St. Clair County's current population rate are continued losses in East St. Louis and adjacent cities and towns, coupled with new unexpected declines in Belleville, Fairview, and Collinsville.

Madison County will take even less to fix than the previously mentioned towns in St. Clair County. Granite City will continue to slowly dip, but Edardsville is doing well, and is seen as being desirable. It's safe, quaint, with a downtown area, and a state university to boot. Madison County's population also never seesawed as much as St. Clair's, which is why its current losses are surprising. For decades the county basically masked the losses in cities like Granite City.

Finally, regarding the MetroLink, it's fairly inconsequential to the vast majority of the Metro East. It only serves St. Clair County (East St. Louis, Washington Park, Belleville, Fairview Heights, Swansea, and Shiloh). Fairview's station is actually so far from the heart of Fairview that I believe it actually has an East St. Louis address. They're good for park and rides for sports games, but they're not necessarily going to be a dealmaker or breaker for most people looking at towns not named East St. Louis or Washington Park. At least not until how the public perceives public transportation in the area changes. Easy interstate access will likely be seen as a bigger boon, especially since traffic, although it certainly exists, isn't perceived as being nearly as large of a problem as it is in other cities.

Last edited by PerseusVeil; 12-29-2016 at 01:22 PM..
 
Old 12-29-2016, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,769 posts, read 2,075,559 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
I agree it is perplexing to see people lurking around these forums after relocating. You'd think with their lives being so great on the other side they'd be out ENJOYING their new homes. Instead they feel the need to return to online platforms as internet Evangelist.
Damn, maybe we should start less political threads and more photography/scenery threads, and so outside lurkers can just watch us talk about how we love the view and nature of our city.

We haven't had many photography threads in a while. The last 1 was somewhat, the tree canopy thread.
 
Old 12-29-2016, 02:05 PM
 
1,851 posts, read 2,143,171 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by NealIRC View Post
Damn, maybe we should start less political threads and more photography/scenery threads, and so outside lurkers can just watch us talk about how we love the view and nature of our city.

We haven't had many photography threads in a while. The last 1 was somewhat, the tree canopy thread.
I'd be game. I have a few pictures I'd share! I got an iPhone 7 a few months back and have since become a professional photographer
 
Old 12-29-2016, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Wicker Park/East Village area
2,474 posts, read 4,127,483 times
Reputation: 1939
Quote:
Originally Posted by NealIRC View Post
We haven't had many photography threads in a while...

Sticky: Post Your Pictures of Chicago (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... Last Page)
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