Chicago's weird obsession with ethnicity

[Bellamouse]

Originally Posted by green apple

African American is not a race. The word you are looking for is "black." Charlize Theron is a white African. It strikes me as disingenuous to pretend that is complicated.

Of course it isn't a race. I am agreeing with you that the whole term "African American" is a silly term, and it annoys me when it's used to describe all black people. It IS used as a term to describe a race here. But it's used incorrectly and it annoys me. We have been told by the PC police that the term black is no longer acceptable, and we MUST use African American when describing a black person.

I honestly have no problem if someone doesn't like the term black for some reason, but to change it to "African American" makes no sense at all, since not all people of African descent are 1) American, or 2) black.

That is my point. You must not have thoroughly read my original post where I clearly wrote "Which always brings me back around to the term "African-American" to describe a black person.."

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

Of course it isn't a race. I am agreeing with you that the whole term "African American" is a silly term, and it annoys me when it's used to describe all black people. It IS used as a term to describe a race here. But it's used incorrectly and it annoys me. We have been told by the PC police that the term black is no longer acceptable, and we MUST use African American when describing a black person.

I honestly have no problem if someone doesn't like the term black for some reason, but to change it to "African American" makes no sense at all, since not all people of African descent are 1) American, or 2) black.

That is my point. You must not have thoroughly read my original post where I clearly wrote "Which always brings me back around to the term "African-American" to describe a black person.."

Ask North Africans if they consider themselves Black and you probably will receive a pissed off response most of the time.

And in the US Census, North Africans are "White"!!

[damba]

Originally Posted by PerseusVeil

I frankly find the difference of how the various Armenian communities across the US are perceived to be fascinating. When I was in LA, it came across that a lot of people, including some Armenians themselves, didn't perceive Armenians as being white. In other parts of the country that's not necessarily the case, but those parts of the country usually have more "ethnic" white people as well.

It is fascinating but hardly surprising. If someone is accustomed to all sorts of different types of people, they won't bat an eyelash. The Armenians hail from a pretty complex part of the world culturally, so that may have something to do with it too.

Caucasian can be a regional identity though. The US uses it wrong to be perfectly honest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus

True, some words become used in popular speech incorrectly. In this context of this thread though, there's nothing incorrect about using the term 'Caucasian'. Sure, the German anthropologist in the 18th? century who coined the term may have gotten facts wrong, but it's important to provide context when referring to very common terms as 'incorrect'. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned 'African-American' as a misnomer. It really is just relating to the fact that the term 'black American' became unpopular. They stopped using terms like 'negroid'/'caucausoid' because it was associated with nationalism/racism in the 19th Century.

[damba]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

Ask North Africans if they consider themselves Black and you probably will receive a pissed off response most of the time.

You are going off the deep end slightly here.

'North Africa' generally includes countries north of/hugging the north edge of the Sahara. Sudan would be included in this group of countries. My lovely Sudanese friends who I lunch with hardly register a glance if I call them black They honestly don't care- only we have the luxury of worrying about this stuff.

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by Bellamouse

That is my point. You must not have thoroughly read my original post where I clearly wrote "Which always brings me back around to the term "African-American" to describe a black person.."

Who told you that's what African American means? You're wrong.

African American describes an American of Black African decent. The term black is not wrong or disparaging, but in some contexts it's not descriptive enough. The same as white is not a descriptive as Irish American.

My black friends in Canada do not call themselves African American, that would be silly. They call themselves African Canadians, or just black for short.

So now that you have been educated, can we move on to better topics?

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by damba

It is fascinating but hardly surprising. If someone is accustomed to all sorts of different types of people, they won't bat an eyelash. The Armenians hail from a pretty complex part of the world culturally, so that may have something to do with it too.

Mind you, most Armenians living in the US most likely did not come from what is the current country of Armenia. They do have a long and complex story, with many communities being made up of descendants of genocide survivors. Still, I do think their assimilation into American society, and white American in particular, happened more readily in areas that already had relatively high numbers of Italians, Greeks, etc.

True, some words become used in popular speech incorrectly. In this context of this thread though, there's nothing incorrect about using the term 'Caucasian'. Sure, the German anthropologist in the 18th? century who coined the term may have gotten facts wrong, but it's important to provide context when referring to very common terms as 'incorrect'. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned 'African-American' as a misnomer. It really is just relating to the fact that the term 'black American' became unpopular. They stopped using terms like 'negroid'/'caucausoid' because it was associated with nationalism/racism in the 19th Century.

If I'm remembering the story correctly, the German anthropologist decided that Georgian women were the most beautiful in the entire world, so therefore white people must have originated in the Caucasus region. It was something ridiculous like that.

Originally Posted by damba

You are going off the deep end slightly here.

'North Africa' generally includes countries north of/hugging the north edge of the Sahara. Sudan would be included in this group of countries. My lovely Sudanese friends who I lunch with hardly register a glance if I call them black They honestly don't care- only we have the luxury of worrying about this stuff.

I think this might depend on the country. I believe the BBC and Al Jazeera have done various features on the racism that black Africans face in countries actually on the Mediterranean in Africa, such as Egypt and Tunisia.

[Bellamouse]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

Who told you that's what African American means? You're wrong.

African American describes an American of Black African decent. The term black is not wrong or disparaging, but in some contexts it's not descriptive enough. The same as white is not a descriptive as Irish American.

My black friends in Canada do not call themselves African American, that would be silly. They call themselves African Canadians, or just black for short.

So now that you have been educated, can we move on to better topics?

You must not ever listen to the news, read the newspaper or look at government documents where you have to check your ethnicity. Nor must you have ever spoken to an American black person. Do you even know any black people in America? Or have any black friends in the States? Go ahead and ask them whether they think being referred to as black is disparaging or not. It's irrelevant to me what Canadian blacks think, they aren't American and aren't part of the American culture. Obviously British black people don't call themselves African-American either, nor do Swedish black people call themselves African-American. Which is PRECISELY MY POINT.

The news (tv, newspapers)/media (talk shows, tv shows, whatever) ALWAYS use the term African-American, they NEVER say black when referring to a black person, and my government forms have the term African-American on them as a choice to select when disclosing your ethnicity.

You don't need to school me on what the term means, I clearly know what it means, and you just keep proving my point over and over in your foolish condescending way. If you're so smart, then why aren't you able to understand the words that I am writing?

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by damba

You are going off the deep end slightly here.

'North Africa' generally includes countries north of/hugging the north edge of the Sahara. Sudan would be included in this group of countries. My lovely Sudanese friends who I lunch with hardly register a glance if I call them black They honestly don't care- only we have the luxury of worrying about this stuff.

Way to ignore countries like Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya. But no. Sudan is representative of the whole of North Africa.

And of course all North Africans look Sudanese!

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by green apple

In the context of the way we use the word African, I think both descriptions are appropriate. For example I have Nigerian friends, they would also be called African. If you are from Italy, you would also be European.

I'm part Sicilian... so I missed being "African American" by only a few miles.

[Bellamouse]

Originally Posted by andrew61

i'm part sicilian... So i missed being "african american" by only a few miles. :d

rofl!