Is anyone here a Yuppie brave enough to come out of the closet? (Clinton: unemployment, taxes)

[Lookout Kid]

My wife and I have a lot of income (even with my recent job loss), but little wealth. We tried. We saved religiously in a 401K and invested in real estate. Both have been bad investments! So even though we are living the yuppie lifestyle in Chicago, we are perilously close to losing it. Too close for comfort. Most of the Yuppies I know have an even smaller safety net than we do. At least we have several months of expenses saved away in an emergency fund. But if the economy dives further and jobs are impossible to get, you will see a lot of former yuppies applying to be mangers at McDonald's. And since the younger generation thinks they deserve a lot, this will lead to serious political upheaval.

[lenniel]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

My wife and I have a lot of income (even with my recent job loss), but little wealth. We tried. We saved religiously in a 401K and invested in real estate. Both have been bad investments! So even though we are living the yuppie lifestyle in Chicago, we are perilously close to losing it. Too close for comfort. Most of the Yuppies I know have an even smaller safety net than we do. At least we have several months of expenses saved away in an emergency fund. But if the economy dives further and jobs are impossible to get, you will see a lot of former yuppies applying to be mangers at McDonald's. And since the younger generation thinks they deserve a lot, this will lead to serious political upheaval.

I think wealth and income are all relative. For someone making $45K, they might think someone making $150K is 'wealthy', while someone making $500K is going to look at the person making 150 and wonder how they can possibly live on that little. Now granted, if you have a household income of $200K, you're probably in the top 1% of earners in the country (that seems hard to believe but it's true). The good part is, you have some good income, the bad part is, just wait til Obama gets started on redistributing 'your' wealth!!

[ajolotl]

It's also extremely relative to where you live in the country, though Obama's tax plan doesn't account for that at all. Most families I know make more than 200K but aren't in much of a position to pay more taxes -- relatively expensive homes and private school tuition eat up much of it.

Originally Posted by lenniel

I think wealth and income are all relative. For someone making $45K, they might think someone making $150K is 'wealthy', while someone making $500K is going to look at the person making 150 and wonder how they can possibly live on that little. Now granted, if you have a household income of $200K, you're probably in the top 1% of earners in the country (that seems hard to believe but it's true). The good part is, you have some good income, the bad part is, just wait til Obama gets started on redistributing 'your' wealth!!

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by ajolotl

It's also extremely relative to where you live in the country, though Obama's tax plan doesn't account for that at all. Most families I know make more than 200K but aren't in much of a position to pay more taxes -- relatively expensive homes and private school tuition eat up much of it.

Really, if you can't afford a few percentage points increase worth of a tax on only a percentage of your salary when you're making 200K+, then you are a moron, pure and simple.

[oakparkdude]

Interesting thread about class. First of all, I got give a hand to Drover for his Nelson Muntz reference. Ha, ha, indeed!

Secondly, we've had at least of decade of increasing concentration of wealth (power, and opportunity) at the top of the economic scale. As Irish Tom points out, you eventually reach a dangerous tipping point where the less well-off feel the system is rigged and no longer feel any incentive to maintain the status quo. We who have benefited from the status quo should be wary of a "Let them eat cake" attitude.

[softdev]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

Really, if you can't afford a few percentage points increase worth of a tax on only a percentage of your salary when you're making 200K+, then you are a moron, pure and simple.

Talk like this just demonstrates the stupidity and jealousy of the lower class. Let's extend your logically fallacy. A few percentage points more on those who make 50k isn't really that big of a deal then. If you can't afford $125 more a month, then then you are a moron, pure and simple.

See, it's pretty easy to whip together a few nonsense statements and think yourself a genius.

[hsw]

Top 1% of earners pay some 40% of all taxes

Most of guys I know who are <40yo and worth >$100MM are guys who are from middle-class roots all over US (and many from outside US) who figured out what colleges and careers made sense....US is land of upward mobility; most of "wealthy" are self-made money, not trust fund kids

In fact, many of trust fund kids have issues w/being mocked by kids who made their own money (and often have more bucks)....just look at who's worth >$100MM these days in Manhattan or Greenwich or Silicon Valley or Beverly Hills or Chic

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by jdiddy

Really, if you can't afford a few percentage points increase worth of a tax on only a percentage of your salary when you're making 200K+, then you are a moron, pure and simple.

It isn't just "a few percentage points" increase. Percentage of total is significantly different than "just a few dollars".

Let's look at Mary and Bob, a middle class couple who have average income of $200,000 collectively. They live in a middle class home outside of Chicago; nothing fancy. They have two kids like most middle class married couples.

If Mary and Bob are paying a mortgage, on top of that they have insurance and misc expenses-- a realistic figure for the average $250,000 home would be about $915 a month in mortgage... It's really about $1,500 in total. $1,500*12= $18,000/year, and that's an extremely conservative figure for your general middle class family.

They have kids, though, and let's assume they're just in public school. So... I don't know... $1,000 at least a month, although I suspect this number might be higher if these kids are involved in anything. $12,000.

Food/bills/clothing/general expense: $2,500 a month as a ridiculously conservative and unrealistic number. $30,000.

They never go out, take vacations, shop for new clothing or buy new shoes. They only ever shop at Sam's Club. Restaurants? No. No movies or entertainment.

Insurance and health concerns that come up-- realistically about $1,000 a month. $12,000.

Let's just look at federal tax at this point. $200,000 filing jointly - $10,900 std ded=189,100. They narrowly avoid a tax bracket. Total federal tax is $41,692. If we assume 5% of state income, and that's perfectly reasonable, we have $10,000, although I'd say it's realistic to reduce this to about $7,500. Property taxes, eh. I pay a hell of a lot more, but for Bob and Mary it's going to come to around... Hell. I'll assume 3% of property value. That's $7,500.

Total tax bill: $56,692

Total annual expenses: $72,000.

Gross income $200,000 - taxes+expenses $128,692= $71,308 annual after-tax and expense income.

That number looks very high, but it's not. It's more like $30,000 because I didn't take into account so many other things. And off of that number they're supposed to save for retirement, too.

What's a few more percent increases in tax, right?

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by hsw

Top 1% of earners pay some 40% of all taxes

The top 1% also earn nearly 22% of all income.

Seriously, all of us who have been blessed with financial success should be a lot more humble. Although there is some component of innate ability (intelligence, hard-work, etc), there's a lot more that's out of our control (primarily, but not exclusively circumstance of birth.)

[softdev]

It's easy to be for taxes when you don't make anything. That's how we end up with today's tax scheme where 50% of the citizens share less than 3% of the total tax burden.

And as if paying 97% of the taxes (it gets even more ridiculous as you stratify it into the top 10%, top 1%, and top 0.1%) wasn't enough, we now have the moochers and leachers who are threatening to put our heads on a stick. I'm glad all my siblings and friends are yuppies. None of us ever threatened anyone with violence...