Is anyone here a Yuppie brave enough to come out of the closet? (wealthy, education)

[aragx6]

I love people always say "you" as if there's no possible way I'm in the same boat as you.

I for one recognize the fantastic leg up I received from my parents who read to me every night, took me to the doctor and kept me active and from the well-regarded school district I was fortunate enough to live in and the help I was able to get paying for college. I'm smart enough to recognize there's no way I'd be where I am today if any of that hadn't happened for me.

[jdiddy]

Waiters can make a lot of money.

[coldwine]

Originally Posted by aragx6

I love people always say "you" as if there's no possible way I'm in the same boat as you.

I for one recognize the fantastic leg up I received from my parents who read to me every night, took me to the doctor and kept me active and from the well-regarded school district I was fortunate enough to live in and the help I was able to get paying for college. I'm smart enough to recognize there's no way I'd be where I am today if any of that hadn't happened for me.

Aw baby, you can be in my boat

There's probably going to be some light fondling, but you knew what you got yourself into, don't look surprised

Jdiddy's correct: waiters can make astounding sums of money. Granted, you have to work at the right restaurant, but many places are (were?) frequented by wealthy people who like to leave big tips.

As noted, I always tip pretty well, especially waiters and bartenders.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by softdev

Yea, it's all about those lucky breaks... Those "lucky breaks" really helped me earn 2 degrees in Electrical Engineering from one of the most challenging schools in the country. They also help me work 14 hour days to be the best at my craft, which has earned me a leadership position and the salary to match at such a young age. How many people here complaining about "lucky breaks" have the drive to do that? Yea...didn't think so.

As long as you keep up the class warfare and thinking its just about lucky breaks, you'll spend your life bitter and never get ahead. Meanwhile, I'll keep getting those "lucky breaks" (i.e., working hard) and you'll be a waiter for the rest of your life.

At a minimum, you're lucky to be born in the U.S., lucky to not have turned 18 during a major war, lucky to have parents who raised you to believe that it was possible for you to go to a challenging school, lucky that you went to a high school considered worthy by the university you first attended (think that doesn't matter, think again - it's exceedingly rare for places like MIT to accept even the brightest students from poorly-performing inner city schools), lucky that you were born in an era where engineers are a valued class.

Neither Avengefire nor I are denigrating your efforts, nor are we supporting the idea that people who don't work hard be just handed things for free. We are simply stating that your apparent desire to revile people who have not been successful by assuming that there is no such thing as luck and implying that we all deserve everything good that happens to us and that everything bad that happens to us is our own, personal fault is not only offensive but logically and empiricly false.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by aragx6

I love people always say "you" as if there's no possible way I'm in the same boat as you.

I for one recognize the fantastic leg up I received from my parents who read to me every night, took me to the doctor and kept me active and from the well-regarded school district I was fortunate enough to live in and the help I was able to get paying for college. I'm smart enough to recognize there's no way I'd be where I am today if any of that hadn't happened for me.

Having parents and peers that went to/planned to go to college is a major factor as well. I think Freaknomics touched on this subject... Or maybe it was that Class Matters book I was just talking about. I get my readings confused sometimes.

[softdev]

Originally Posted by emathias

At a minimum, you're lucky to be born in the U.S.,

Not applicable. This is a Chicago board. So is every ******* on this board complaining about how its all luck. Furthermore there is no "luck" (probability) involved in where I was born. There was a 100% probability I would be born in the United States because I was born to my parents.

Originally Posted by emathias

lucky to not have turned 18 during a major war

Plenty of soldiers came home and had successful careers. Good try.

Originally Posted by emathias

lucky to have parents who raised you to believe that it was possible for you to go to a challenging school

If I'm a slacker, my parents can believe I'll be an astronaut, that doesn't make me successful. People make their own "luck" through hard work. Try again.

Originally Posted by emathias

lucky that you went to a high school considered worthy by the university you first attended (think that doesn't matter, think again - it's exceedingly rare for places like MIT to accept even the brightest students from poorly-performing inner city schools)

Good schools DO accept kids from crappy schools, but the number accepted is proportional to the quality of the students at that school. So yes, a crappy school has dumber kids is going to have far fewer entrants into MIT. I suggest you read The Bell Curve.

Originally Posted by emathias

lucky that you were born in an era where engineers are a valued class.

You can't use when I was born as luck. There's is no chance involved in when I was born. You should try a statistics class if these concepts are difficult for you.

Originally Posted by emathias

We are simply stating that your apparent desire to revile people who have not been successful by assuming that there is no such thing as luck and implying that we all deserve everything good that happens to us and that everything bad that happens to us is our own,
personal fault is not only offensive but logically and empiricly false.

I still haven't heard any logical or empirical evidence. Just conjectures and logical fallacies. Better luck next time.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by softdev

Not applicable. This is a Chicago board. So is every ******* on this board complaining about how its all luck. Furthermore there is no "luck" (probability) involved in where I was born. There was a 100% probability I would be born in the United States because I was born to my parents.

Clearly, you were very wise in your choice of parents.

Plenty of soldiers came home and had successful careers. Good try.

Not the ones who came home in body bags. But that's probably because they are losers and didn't try hard enough.

If I'm a slacker, my parents can believe I'll be an astronaut, that doesn't make me successful. People make their own "luck" through hard work. Try again.

Again hard work is necessary, but not always sufficient.

Good schools DO accept kids from crappy schools, but the number accepted is proportional to the quality of the students at that school. So yes, a crappy school has dumber kids is going to have far fewer entrants into MIT. I suggest you read The Bell Curve.

So a child of doctors who went to Andover has no advantage getting into Harvard than a child of illiterate immigrants who went to a failing public school?

You can't use when I was born as luck. There's is no chance involved in when I was born. You should try a statistics class if these concepts are difficult for you.

Again, your excellent choice of parents is commendable. Those poor schmoes who chose to be born in the ghetto deserve their inadequate schools, high crime, and lack of effective parents.

I still haven't heard any logical or empirical evidence. Just conjectures and logical fallacies. Better luck next time.

You are absolutely right. All your success is entirely due to your commendable personal attributes. None of the externalities in your life had any part in your success. Its obviously a lie that the children of the rich, powerful, and well-educated have a step up in life.

[softdev]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

Again, your excellent choice of parents is commendable. Those poor schmoes who chose to be born in the ghetto deserve their inadequate schools, high crime, and lack of effective parents.

There is no probability in who you are born to. To believe otherwise is a logical fallacy. Tell me the probability that I would be born to the couple in the next flat? The answer is of course 0% as they could not produce my unique genetic makeup.

There's no baby lottery. There's no divine presence who is choosing a child for you. It's just a combination of a sperm and egg. You have a 100% probability of being born to your parents because *you* wouldn't be *you* otherwise.

The rest of your arguments fall along this line. Confusing probability with deterministic events.

[oakparkdude]

Originally Posted by softdev

There is no probability in who you are born to. To believe otherwise is a logical fallacy. Tell me the probability that I would be born to the couple in the next flat? The answer is of course 0% as they could not produce my unique genetic makeup.

There's no baby lottery. There's no divine presence who is choosing a child for you. It's just a combination of a sperm and egg. You have a 100% probability of being born to your parents because *you* wouldn't be *you* otherwise.

The rest of your arguments fall along this line. Confusing probability with deterministic events.

You're speaking to a physician and PhD biologist, so I understand the trivial point that you are making regarding genetics. I know you're not stupid, so you must be willfully ignoring the argument that the rest of us are making. Since you're not interested in addressing our points, I no longer see the point in responding to you.

[nJohn]

Hard work doesn't equal success in some cases.