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Chicago's COL is in line with Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, and Philadelphia, but Philadelphia and Chicago don't have the manufacturing jobs they did 50-60 years ago, hence there is high out migration for places that (for now) have low skill work paying livable wages. Won't be the case in 10-15 years. This shouldn't be taken seriously, but if any city were to become Detroit 2.0, I'd guess Houston. Dallas where much of the high skill work seems to set up shop in TX.
No it won't be Detroit. While Houston's economy is much more energy based, they've learned from the 80s bust. The economy has diversified since and will continue to diversify when it comes to a growing medical, biotechnology, and port system industries. I also would not easily say that Dallas is where much of the high skill work seems to set up shop.
I could not have said it any better. I may have mentioned this on another thread, but I'll repeat it again. All black people moving to Atlanta from Chicago is not a good look for Atlanta. Me being black, I support educated black people and take pride in doing so. Atlanta does not attract the most educated black people that east coast such as DC, Boston and NY does.
Does anyone recall how crime spiked in Atlanta after Hurricane Katrina? The residents from New Orleans were welcomed to Atlanta and Houston and crime spiked immediately in both cities. It was out of control. During that time I was in high school and the cops were onsite collecting guns mostly from the students that had arrived from New Orleans. Hell I had to fight and defend myself after I was randomly attacked near the school bus stop. Maybe he felt I was an easy target. The first day after his suspension, he was expelled from school permanently for the possession of a pistol. To this day, I wonder who that gun was meant for for???
All I can say is I dealt with enough turmoil and ratchedness there for me to never move back and I was raised in the suburbs of Atlanta. And yes Atlanta_BD a lot of the crime there does happen in the suburbs. Due to gentrification all of the public housing in the city proper was shut down, the low income people were forced into the suburbs, which at that time ended up killing home owner's property values in including my parents. This all occured during 2005-2006 and to this day in 2017 my parent's appraised value has still not return to where it was before the turmoil. Also to add to this story, my parents subdivision has access to a community center and 18 hole golf course. If a house in the suburbs of Atlanta is bought for $350,000 it will most likely never appreciate to $550,000-600,000 like homes in New York, California or DC metro area including Northern Virginia and Maryland are known for doing. Again, there is a reason why properties in metro Atlanta are considered CHEAP... Strangely, Atlanta is the only place where I've seen criminals living right on the golf course with so call working class people. Drug dealers, fake *** wannabe rappers, entertainers and rednecks all somehow end up playing golf on the same course. I know I sound dramatic, but this has been my experience.
Crime is totally our out of control in the metro area. The murder rate may not be as high as Chicago, but you all way more likely to get robbed, your home burglarized and car stolen there.
Again, hopefully Atlanta does not have any economic issues in the future because it's going to be hell living there with transients from Chicago, New Orleans, Alabama and Mississippi.
Actually the murder rate is higher in Atlanta than Chicago..
Edit: looks like Chicago moved ahead of Atlanta in 2016 but the murder rates over the last 10 years have been comparable and Atlanta holding a higher rate in most years...
I could not have said it any better. I may have mentioned this on another thread, but I'll repeat it again. All black people moving to Atlanta from Chicago is not a good look for Atlanta. Me being black, I support educated black people and take pride in doing so. Atlanta does not attract the most educated black people that east coast such as DC, Boston and NY does.
Does anyone recall how crime spiked in Atlanta after Hurricane Katrina? The residents from New Orleans were welcomed to Atlanta and Houston and crime spiked immediately in both cities. It was out of control. During that time I was in high school and the cops were onsite collecting guns mostly from the students that had arrived from New Orleans. Hell I had to fight and defend myself after I was randomly attacked near the school bus stop. Maybe he felt I was an easy target. The first day after his suspension, he was expelled from school permanently for the possession of a pistol. To this day, I wonder who that gun was meant for for???
All I can say is I dealt with enough turmoil and ratchedness there for me to never move back and I was raised in the suburbs of Atlanta. And yes Atlanta_BD a lot of the crime there does happen in the suburbs. Due to gentrification all of the public housing in the city proper was shut down, the low income people were forced into the suburbs, which at that time ended up killing home owner's property values in including my parents. This all occured during 2005-2006 and to this day in 2017 my parent's appraised value has still not return to where it was before the turmoil. Also to add to this story, my parents subdivision has access to a community center and 18 hole golf course. If a house in the suburbs of Atlanta is bought for $350,000 it will most likely never appreciate to $550,000-600,000 like homes in New York, California or DC metro area including Northern Virginia and Maryland are known for doing. Again, there is a reason why properties in metro Atlanta are considered CHEAP... Strangely, Atlanta is the only place where I've seen criminals living right on the golf course with so call working class people. Drug dealers, fake *** wannabe rappers, entertainers and rednecks all somehow end up playing golf on the same course. I know I sound dramatic, but this has been my experience.
Crime is totally our out of control in the metro area. The murder rate may not be as high as Chicago, but you all way more likely to get robbed, your home burglarized and car stolen there.
Again, hopefully Atlanta does not have any economic issues in the future because it's going to be hell living there with transients from Chicago, New Orleans, Alabama and Mississippi.
Interesting, given that Atlanta has more crime than Chicago with a significantly less population, and was on the FBI's top ten most dangerous cities list for nearly 20 years straight, whereas Chicago did not crack the top 20.
Atlanta didn't slip from the top ten (to eleven) until 2013, and that's because the crime has moved to the suburbs there (many of which are also very dangerous).
People assume Atlanta is safer than Chicago when it's actually more dangerous.
Depending on where you live in Chicago and even what race you are, the city can feel a lot more dangerous than Atlanta, and that can skew perception of which city is more crime ridden. In fact, 4 neighborhoods on the west side alone had more murders than all of Atlanta, despite having a combined population less than half of the latter in 2016. Just focusing on the neighborhood of Austin had over 500 shootings in 2016.
The other thing is it has become a daily or weekly routine basis for the news to cover how many shootings and murders that has happened on any given weekend. There is probably not a major American city more obsessed than Chicago when it comes to reporting shootings.
I'm letting close-minded people who think that the only way to enjoy life is to live in an overpriced place with sky high taxes know that they aren't speaking for everyone?!
And yet you've taken it upon yourself to speak for mid-high income earners with kids.
Many people I know are upper-middle SES escapees from the burbs and the hinterlands. They would never raise their kids anywhere but the busy part of a global city... and aren't. That's London, Paris, NYC, Berlin, Hong Kong, Sydney, and yes, Chicago. Why would they want to make it harder to immerse their kids in excellence and ensure they develop cultural awareness and a confident, global outlook?
They certainly do not want to commute to interesting things. Of course, these are just people I know, so this observation is worthless.
Quote:
When you have kids, your average week revolves around family time, school and their activities. There's no argument. With the nearly 2k a month we'll be saving we can travel more, save for college, etc. I'd rather my kids see the world than say: "but... but... we live in Soho! We live in Chicagoland!" Who cares?! They aren't benefiting more from living in a more expensive place. They'll benefit from the trips we'll take every 6-8 weeks.
So you think people raise their kids in River North or Soho just for bragging rights? I can assure you they are benefiting from living in these places over the suburbs. And perhaps your average week revolves around school, kids and activities.
But we digress.
Quote:
...The point is that you can't assume everyone leaving is: poor, dislikes entertainment, or hasn't thought out all the costs.
This is true. And yet, folks in this thread are not assuming that.
They are, however, showing why moving to many popular destinations makes neither economic nor 'safety' sense for a large number of people. The vast majority, in fact.
Further, that upgrading to a more global, lower-crime city with better opportunities will incur a disproportionate increase in COL.
And finally, that there's a great deal of movement that has nothing to do, in particular, with either Chicago as a metro area or Illinois as a state. (This last point is the one that best answers the OP's question.)
Your personal experience does not address these ideas. Nor does the class of 'people you know earning 100K+.' Can you offer a rational, fact-based rebuttal of them?
And yet you've taken it upon yourself to speak for mid-high income earners with kids.
Many people I know are upper-middle SES escapees from the burbs and the hinterlands. They would never raise their kids anywhere but the busy part of a global city... and aren't. That's London, Paris, NYC, Berlin, Hong Kong, Sydney, and yes, Chicago. Why would they want to make it harder to immerse their kids in excellence and ensure they develop cultural awareness and a confident, global outlook?
They certainly do not want to commute to interesting things. Of course, these are just people I know, so this observation is worthless.
So you think people raise their kids in River North or Soho just for bragging rights? I can assure you they are benefiting from living in these places over the suburbs. And perhaps your average week revolves around school, kids and activities.
But we digress.
This is true. And yet, folks in this thread are not assuming that.
They are, however, showing why moving to many popular destinations makes neither economic nor 'safety' sense for a large number of people. The vast majority, in fact.
Further, that upgrading to a more global, lower-crime city with better opportunities will incur a disproportionate increase in COL.
And finally, that there's a great deal of movement that has nothing to do, in particular, with either Chicago as a metro area or Illinois as a state. (This last point is the one that best answers the OP's question.)
Your personal experience does not address these ideas. Nor does the class of 'people you know earning 100K+.' Can you offer a rational, fact-based rebuttal of them?
Obviously there will always be people moving for a variety of situations. We know many many multimillionaires. Off the top of my head, they live in places like: Jackson hole, Iowa city, Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, sun valley, Brussels, and Salt Lake City. My response was to provide a real life situation in which a person IS NOT leaving Illinois because they are being driven out and unable to afford it. I don't think that is hard to grasp.
Yes, that is personal preference but I would rather my kids live somewhere suburban and have a backyard to play in! So uncultured of us to desire that. Oh, and I also guess we are in the minority for having our week revolve around our children's activities and lives. Maybe I should hire a nanny and go about my business? Sorry, they're only little once and that is also what we feel is benefiting them the most.
I have no idea what your point even is. Trying to make it sound like those raising families in the center of a massive city give their kids some sort of "superior" experience? Whatever, dude. Get real.
Obviously there will always be people moving for a variety of situations. We know many many multimillionaires. Off the top of my head, they live in places like: Jackson hole, Iowa city, Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, sun valley, Brussels, and Salt Lake City. My response was to provide a real life situation in which a person IS NOT leaving Illinois because they are being driven out and unable to afford it. I don't think that is hard to grasp.
Yes, that is personal preference but I would rather my kids live somewhere suburban and have a backyard to play in! So uncultured of us to desire that. Oh, and I also guess we are in the minority for having our week revolve around our children's activities and lives. Maybe I should hire a nanny and go about my business? Sorry, they're only little once and that is also what we feel is benefiting them the most.
I have no idea what your point even is. Trying to make it sound like those raising families in the center of a massive city give their kids some sort of "superior" experience? Whatever, dude. Get real.
Taco, you sound like you're still trying to convince yourself Atlanta is good move for you and your family. No one cares if you move. It's the misrepresentation of Chicago/Illinois that people are taking issue with, not your desire to live in suburban Atlanta. You may know people who move from Illinois and are high income earners. No one is saying that doesn't happen. What we've been explaining to you is that those who do move are replaced by other high income households. You will not be missed. For the 10th+ time, enjoy Atlanta!
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