Utterly amazing what's going on in a town literally everybody is abandoning (Chicago: home, wages)

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Berteau

Good paying jobs??!! the loop has the highest concentration of high paying jobs in the country outside of new York. Its like 6 miles from the south and west side!!! YOu do realize you have to actually graduate highschool and speak proper English, and show up on time everyday to get a "good paying job" don't you. Its not just handed to you on a silver platter.

Let me just guess how you answered my poll earlier.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by ParkerP

...
I forgot why they did this but I remember it left a lot of people in my old hood in a wreck that many of them never recovered from.

The only reason they do something like that is to save money. That's what happens when unions over-reach and negotiate compensation for their members that far exceeds wages in similar non-union jobs. Eventually the money becomes too high and the only way the management can make the numbers work is to completely turn the job on its head. I'm actually pro-union, but I think unions also have to realize they have to operate in the real world and if they're not careful they may win a battle but lose the war - which is, unfortunately, what happened to a lot of them. They won a lot of battles but ended up pricing themselves so high they lost the war. High-wage union jobs make sense for some positions, but often unions do better simply negotiating a reasonable wage and making sure management doesn't make capricious decisions about individual workers. In other words, unions should keep management honest but they do best when it's unions working *with* management and not creating an adversarial environment. Some of the most successful unions did (and still do) take that approach and they still exist because of it. That's why I dislike the Teacher's Union in Chicago - it is very much taking an adversarial approach and not even acknowledging the political and economic environment the City finds itself in.

[BRU67]

Unions most definitely helped destroy our manufacturing base. And now they are driving our taxes through the roof and causing our services to be cut in the public sector.

But, yet, despite these obvious realities, anytime anyone proposes right-to-work in Illinois. Voyager 1 picks up the screams from deep space. I will admit that the days of gold plated union benefits in the private sector are pretty much over, but it doesn't mean that good paying jobs have to be.

[lepoisson]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Unions most definitely helped destroy our manufacturing base. And now they are driving our taxes through the roof and causing our services to be cut in the public sector.

But, yet, despite these obvious realities, anytime anyone proposes right-to-work in Illinois. Voyager 1 picks up the screams from deep space. I will admit that the days of gold plated union benefits in the private sector are pretty much over, but it doesn't mean that good paying jobs have to be.

Unions are quite interesting. They were created to prevent employers from taking advantage of employees. But then the employees got too demanding and became too costly for employers.

[Vlajos]

Manufacturing is a lost cause. Illinois policies certainly don't help though.

[ParkerP]

Originally Posted by emathias

The only reason they do something like that is to save money. That's what happens when unions over-reach and negotiate compensation for their members that far exceeds wages in similar non-union jobs. Eventually the money becomes too high and the only way the management can make the numbers work is to completely turn the job on its head. I'm actually pro-union, but I think unions also have to realize they have to operate in the real world and if they're not careful they may win a battle but lose the war - which is, unfortunately, what happened to a lot of them. They won a lot of battles but ended up pricing themselves so high they lost the war. High-wage union jobs make sense for some positions, but often unions do better simply negotiating a reasonable wage and making sure management doesn't make capricious decisions about individual workers. In other words, unions should keep management honest but they do best when it's unions working *with* management and not creating an adversarial environment. Some of the most successful unions did (and still do) take that approach and they still exist because of it. That's why I dislike the Teacher's Union in Chicago - it is very much taking an adversarial approach and not even acknowledging the political and economic environment the City finds itself in.

Thanks for the break down. I was a kid or pre-teen when all of that went down but I distinctly remember growing up in an area where the sentiment was like, getting a job with the city or CTA was like hitting the lottery lol. Fortunately some of us did have parents that stressed getting a college education as they saw the writing on the wall with that. I agree the CTU is playing a very dangerous game.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

Manufacturing is a lost cause. Illinois policies certainly don't help though.

There was a thread posted in the Illinois forum about someone re-locating to Illinois and they asked about Sterling IL. Though it is primarily an agricultural area they do have the HQ locations for Sterling Steel that makes about half a million TONS of steel wire / cable each year -- Sterling Steel

When folks say "manufacturing is a lost cause" are you willing to write off the THOUSANDS of families that are dependent on these kinds of firms located throughout the country? Doesn't it make more sense to recognize that these vital products are going to be made somewhere and if Illinois can address the concerns of the firms that NEED policies that are on par with other states these jobs will stay in Illinois?

For folks who care to read up on how other countries remain competitive in manufacturing it is useful to look to Germany -- https://hbr.org/2017/05/why-germany-...facturing-jobs

Only about 1.1% of the world population is German. However, 48% of the mid-sized world market leaders come from Germany. ... competitive strength is the unique German dual system of apprenticeship, which combines practical and theoretical training in non-academic trades. The Hidden Champions invest 50% more in vocational training than the average German company.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by chet everett

When folks say "manufacturing is a lost cause" are you willing to write off the THOUSANDS of families that are dependent on these kinds of firms located throughout the country?

They absolutely are, and are more than glad to tell us so - when they aren't posting on Facebook about how dumbfounded they are that Donald Trump is in the White House

I don't think manufacturing is a lost cause, at all. To say that is a lazy cop out. And even if it was close to a lost cause, we'd have to figure out a way to get it back. That or we're going to have some serious political unrest in the not-too-distant future. Just sayin'.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by BRU67

They absolutely are, and are more than glad to tell us so - when they aren't posting on Facebook about how dumbfounded they are that Donald Trump is in the White House

I don't think manufacturing is a lost cause, at all. To say that is a lazy cop out. And even if it was close to a lost cause, we'd have to figure out a way to get it back. That or we're going to have some serious political unrest in the not-too-distant future. Just sayin'.

...was started with sort of the snarky comment about "everyone is leaving Chicago but there are SO MANY cranes building highrises" and the essence of the construction is really a HUGE piece of why manufacturing really does remain important.

From the actually heavy equipment like cranes and other construction site needs, to the STEEL and concrete used to make the towers to the huge amounts of building products used to provide the various infrastructure / systems for the residential and office spaces, to all the interior finish materials including office furniture, appliances, lighting and bathroom fixtures it is probably easy for some folks to forget how many of these firms have direct ties to Illinois.

Company Profile : Chicago Faucets

Inland Steel Co.

Caterpillar | History

John Boos & Co. - Wood Cutting Boards - Butcher Blocks - Kitchen Countertops - Stainless Steel Foodservice Equipment

[Vlajos]

Illinois can and should make itself more attractive to manufacturers. But there won't be enough jobs and most won't be in the City of Chicago, they would be out where land is cheaper and with less population density than a large city. Carrier is still moving those jobs to Mexico even after the fake news that Trump was saving jobs in Indiana.