Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Illinois > Chicago
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-26-2017, 02:28 PM
 
28,455 posts, read 84,943,296 times
Reputation: 18725

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liledgy View Post
What coalition? This is entertaining. The unions are now getting management raises? Is that how Rauners had picked president to lead the schools got a nice annuity to compensate for his tier two pension?
The fact is that there are plenty of studies that show GOVERNMENT unions have none of the normal factors that exist in the normal private sector unions where labor and management have to bargain over limited resources. Instead the taxpayer is fleeced and both the "managers" and workers make out like bandits -- The Case Against Public Sector Unions | Hoover Institution --
Quote:
In the private sector, negotiations take place between owners, or their agents, and unions. Thus, the negotiations are at least two-sided. By contrast, in the public sector, the citizens of the state who pay taxes and receive benefits are the stakeholders across the bargaining table from unions. The citizen stakeholders are represented by elected officials, most of whom have received significant campaign contributions from public sector unions. In such a situation, taxpayers are liable to exploitation by the union.

You are completely correct that there is no way for ComEd or other private sector firms to offer the outrageously generous benefits and salaries of municipalities that can continue to levy ever higher taxes -- https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publ...-sector-unions
Quote:
. In the private sector, the wage demands of union workers cannot exceed a certain threshold: If they do, they can render their employers uncompetitive, threatening workers' long-term job security. In the public sector, though, government is the monopoly provider of many services, eliminating any market pressures that might keep unions' demands in check. Moreover, unlike in the private sector, contract negotiations in the public sector are usually not highly adversarial; most government-agency mangers have little personal stake in such negotiations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-26-2017, 03:04 PM
 
4,380 posts, read 2,875,412 times
Reputation: 6003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liledgy View Post
Bert, I'm not rationalizing anything. As far as city managers, usually they run the city (unlike the city of Chicago), the mayor is just a figurehead. The manager works for the city council, the city manager Carries out the councils wishes. im sure Chet will find a reason why it's the unions fault that city managers make what they do.
Why are we comparing to a mayor? We are comparing to the GOVERNOR. AKA. The person who runs the state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2017, 03:09 PM
 
4,380 posts, read 2,875,412 times
Reputation: 6003
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
You are simply wrong. I've worked for local governments both in Washington state and in Missouri and there's nothing particularly notable about those salaries.
Your claim is worthless without links and references. Post your sources for comparison.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2017, 03:24 PM
 
997 posts, read 839,125 times
Reputation: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by chet everett View Post
The fact is that there are plenty of studies that show GOVERNMENT unions have none of the normal factors that exist in the normal private sector unions where labor and management have to bargain over limited resources. Instead the taxpayer is fleeced and both the "managers" and workers make out like bandits -- The Case Against Public Sector Unions | Hoover Institution --


You are completely correct that there is no way for ComEd or other private sector firms to offer the outrageously generous benefits and salaries of municipalities that can continue to levy ever higher taxes -- https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publ...-sector-unions
Chet, com ed, the contractors offer FAR more than any of the public sector utilities. You have it backwards. St Charles, Batavia Geneva Naperville can't compete with Edison or the contractors. Those villages can't even get people to apply. The reason being the scale is lower, the pension is lower and the medical is inferior and costs more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2017, 03:26 PM
 
997 posts, read 839,125 times
Reputation: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berteau View Post
Why are we comparing to a mayor? We are comparing to the GOVERNOR. AKA. The person who runs the state.
I was pointing out that city managers run the city that employs them. Chicago is different in that they don't have a city manager, they have had hats called a "strong mayor".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2017, 04:04 PM
 
4,380 posts, read 2,875,412 times
Reputation: 6003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liledgy View Post
Chet, com ed, the contractors offer FAR more than any of the public sector utilities. You have it backwards. St Charles, Batavia Geneva Naperville can't compete with Edison or the contractors. Those villages can't even get people to apply. The reason being the scale is lower, the pension is lower and the medical is inferior and costs more.
How do you know they can't get people to apply? There is no way that is true. I'm sure there at least 20 applicants for every opening.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2017, 05:01 PM
 
997 posts, read 839,125 times
Reputation: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berteau View Post
How do you know they can't get people to apply? There is no way that is true. I'm sure there at least 20 applicants for every opening.
Because it's in the industry I'm in. When jobs open up we here about them. Lineman are tramps, we drag up and go work there, then we go here, etc. If the economy sucks, a co op would strictly be a fill in for a few months, and that's only if you didn't want to travel a bit to take a better job.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2017, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,723 posts, read 9,323,965 times
Reputation: 15458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berteau View Post
Your claim is worthless without links and references. Post your sources for comparison.
And your claim that Illinois government workers make more than in other states is worthless without links and references. So far, all someone has done is posted an article listing a bunch of Illinois state and local employees who make over $100k. So what? How do you know that a lot of government employees in other states don't make similar amounts? I happen to work in local government here in Missouri and have also done the same in Washington, and at least based on that list of salaries for DuPage County I linked before, there is simply nothing unusual about them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2017, 06:54 PM
 
997 posts, read 839,125 times
Reputation: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berteau View Post
How do you know they can't get people to apply? There is no way that is true. I'm sure there at least 20 applicants for every opening.
To be fair, Edison runs an almost constant ad for troubleshooting lineman, officially known as an OES (overhead electrician special). They can't get enough of them. Bert, if you are serious about those twenty applicants, tell them to go to exelon careers or the website indeed. Edison (exelon) had to cancel there last training class (you need to be a journeyman lineman to be qualified for the training) because they only got two guys to accept the offer. They need a minimum of 5 and prefer 8-10 to spend the resources needed to put them on the street and be successful. 300k is very possible if your body can take it, and 220k is pretty much guaranteed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-26-2017, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,723 posts, read 9,323,965 times
Reputation: 15458
Here we go - this is Kansas:
Databank | Kansas OpenGov
Quote:
County Year First Name Last Name Position Gross Pay
Johnson 2016 Pranahitha Reddy Chief Medical Officer $236,032
Sedgwick 2016 Rex Lear Chief Clinical Director $234,654
Johnson 2016 Hannes Zacharias County Manager $221,487
Johnson 2016 Ryan Jacobsen EMS System Medical Director $216,244
Wyandotte 2016 Douglas Bach County Administrator $205,164
Johnson 2016 Khan Noohani Staff Psychiatrist $204,675
Sedgwick 2016 Mark Reed Zoo Director $203,163
Sedgwick 2016 John Gallagher EMSS Medical Director $200,431
Johnson 2016 Donald Jarrett Chief Counsel/Director of Legal Services $200,089
Johnson 2016 Sobia Shaffie Staff Psychiatrist $199,050
Johnson 2016 Penny Postoak Deputy County Manager $192,095
Johnson 2016 Paul Welcome County Appraiser $189,015
Sedgwick 2016 Lin Xu Clinical Director $188,785
Johnson 2016 Dean Palos Director of Planning $186,562
Sedgwick 2016 Andrew Lauronilla Clinical Director $183,201
Sedgwick 2016 DeAnn Jenkins Clinical Director $183,123
Johnson 2016 Joe Waters Assistant County Manager $182,981
Johnson 2016 Maury Thompson Assistant County Manager $179,493
Sedgwick 2016 Timothy Rohrig Director Forensic Science Center $177,671
Sedgwick 2016 Timothy Gorrill Coroner/Medical Examiner $176,386
Johnson 2016 Stephen Howe District Attorney $173,703
Sedgwick 2016 Michael Scholes County Manager $170,850
Johnson 2016 Richard Simpson Major $169,250
Sedgwick 2016 Robert Holland Sheriff Detective $168,576
Johnson 2016 Steven Obermeier Senior Attorney $166,539
Sedgwick 2016 Kathrine Girrens Clinical Director $165,800
Sedgwick 2016 German Gonzalez Clinical Director $165,690
Johnson 2016 Kuldeep Singh Staff Psychiatrist $163,567
Johnson 2016 Jeffrey Lang Master Deputy $160,646
Johnson 2016 Thomas Franzen Director of Financial Management $159,282
Douglas 2016 Craig Weinaug Administrator County $159,182
Johnson 2016 C Clark Lieutenant $158,855
Sedgwick 2016 Scott Kipper Deputy Coroner $158,751
Johnson 2016 Rebecca Salter Director of Human Resources $157,918
Johnson 2016 Timothy Mulcahy Director of Justice Information Management System $157,369
Johnson 2016 Chris McMullin Chief Deputy District Attorney $157,011
Johnson 2016 Robert Brown Master Deputy $155,711
Johnson 2016 H Marsh Director of Health & Environment $155,649
Johnson 2016 Elizabeth Gillespie Director of Community Corrections $155,514
Sedgwick 2016 Chris Chronis Chief Financial Officer $152,617
And so on, and so forth. You have to go to page 17 before you get to sub-$100K salaries. And those are JUST county employee salaries. Here are some city employee salaries:
Databank | Kansas OpenGov
Quote:
City Year First Name Last Name Position Gross Pay
Olathe 2016 John Michael Wilkes City Manager $260,807
Wichita 2016 Robert L Layton City Manager $228,142
Overland Park 2016 Ebel Jr William E City Manager $227,047
Lenexa 2016 J. Eric Wade City Administrator $215,495
Topeka 2016 James Brown Police Chief $211,401
Kansas City 2016 Douglas Bach County Administrator $205,164
Overland Park 2016 Pledge Robert A Mgr, Applications & Dev $193,069
Olathe 2016 Susan E Sherman Assistant City Manager $192,308
Salina 2016 Jason Gage City Manager $184,982
Lawrence 2016 Thomas Markus City Manager $184,973
Shawnee 2016 Carol Gonzales City Manager $181,025
Overland Park 2016 Stallings Kristy Cannon Deputy City Manager $180,882
Wichita 2016 Jennifer L Magana Director Of Law&City $179,595
Topeka 2016 James Colson City Manager $178,458
Wichita 2016 Gordon S Ramsay Police Chief $174,683
Wichita 2016 Victor D White Director Of Airports $171,295
Wichita 2016 Catherine Holdeman Assistant City Manag $168,697
Overland Park 2016 Donchez Francis R Chief of Police $167,893
Shawnee 2016 Doug Wesselschmidt Dev Serv Dir/City Eng $167,483
Topeka 2016 Jeri Cole Police Detective $166,152
Here you have to go to page 22 to get sub-$100K salaries.

And this is Kansas, which can hardly be accused of being some liberal, union-loving, wage-overpaying stronghold. There is absolutely nothing different about these compared to Illinois.

Go browse to your heart's content here:
Databank | Kansas OpenGov

So as I originally said, this is much ado about nothing. People ranting about something with no idea what they're talking about.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Illinois > Chicago
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top