Why are there so many threads trashing South Side and West Side neighborhoods? (apartment, insurance)

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

Drover,

When I was in high school I was busy rounding up cattle and driving tractors.

And I was busy walking to school barefoot through 3 feet of snow. Kids today.

[Humboldt1]

BRU67,

I was serious. I actually got out of school a few times because the cattle got out.

I took the school bus to school (only 1 mile) and never had to walk in 3 feet of snow. We only received that much snow once, in 1996, when I was a senior in high school. Christmas break lasted until late Jan as it took weeks to remove the 34 inches of snow we received and the drifting made matters even worse.

I still think we should have given the kid more slack, given they are just in high school.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

BRU67,

I was serious. I actually got out of school a few times because the cattle got out.

I took the school bus to school (only 1 mile) and never had to walk in 3 feet of snow. We only received that much snow once, in 1996, when I was a senior in high school. Christmas break lasted until late Jan as it took weeks to remove the 34 inches of snow we received and the drifting made matters even worse.

I still think we should have given the kid more slack, given they are just in high school.

Hehe, just messing with you there bro . It was only 2 feet of snow.

Anyway, back to the OT, it's good that some people have a chip on their shoulder about its condition, as that can be the beginning of action, but I think subsequent posters may have been reacting negatively because the OP seemed to blame the West Side's problems on others "looking down" on them, as opposed to looking within for the answers.

I mean, it's not like God thundered one day "You Shalt be a Ghetto!" The people who live there have to take much of the responsibility. Even you yourself pointed to gentrification as being the answer -- which is effectively saying that others from outside will have to move in and clean it up. Why should they have to wait for that?

[Humboldt1]

BRU67,

I am gonna get so slammed for my opinion here.

These people (those trapped in a cycle of poverty) are essentially children, regardless of age. The best way to deal with a child who never grew up and learned to take responsibility for themselves and their children for that matter is to hold their hand. I hate having to do this as I frankly don't have time for this. Most of us just grudgingly pay our taxes and pay the govt to have some social worker hold their hands.

So long as we subsidize their existence, they will never be forced to grow up.

Perhaps the solution is to ween them off slowly, forcing them to take responsibility gradually.

I still think the best way to contain the problem (poverty) is to limit its growth by not allowing these people to have more than a couple kids. Food stamps would going forward only pay for two kids. After that, you would be on your own. This would also apply to sec8. Of course those already born would be exempt to be fair but this would discourage future poor from breeding like rabbits.

Even growing up in Indiana it always ticked me off seeing these large families getting free lunches (one family had 17 kids, kinda scary and they were all ugly to make it even funnier).

[oakparkdude]

This might be slightly off topic, but...

The best anti-poverty program is a job. The promise of employment and economic advancement is the best incentive to encourage hard work and discourage anti-social behavior. It's truly a cruel twist of history that during the 60s and 70s, just as the legal and extralegal roadblocks of segregation (which kept African-Americans poor) were fading, the American economy started to undergo restructuring which largely eliminated the blue collar jobs which have historically been the first step of the ladder for economic advancement of the poor.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

BRU67,

I am gonna get so slammed for my opinion here.

These people (those trapped in a cycle of poverty) are essentially children, regardless of age. The best way to deal with a child who never grew up and learned to take responsibility for themselves and their children for that matter is to hold their hand. I hate having to do this as I frankly don't have time for this. Most of us just grudgingly pay our taxes and pay the govt to have some social worker hold their hands.

So long as we subsidize their existence, they will never be forced to grow up.

Perhaps the solution is to ween them off slowly, forcing them to take responsibility gradually.

I still think the best way to contain the problem (poverty) is to limit its growth by not allowing these people to have more than a couple kids. Food stamps would going forward only pay for two kids. After that, you would be on your own. This would also apply to sec8. Of course those already born would be exempt to be fair but this would discourage future poor from breeding like rabbits.

Even growing up in Indiana it always ticked me off seeing these large families getting free lunches (one family had 17 kids, kinda scary and they were all ugly to make it even funnier).

I agree with you fully. Problem is that the best solution we seem to have thus far is to simply kick the "children" out of their neighborhoods -- preferably into small out of the way suburbs south of the City where we don't have to deal with them -- and replace them with wealthy white folk. That's not really a very good answer, and probably an untenable one at that given that there are only so many gays and artists out there who can spearhead this. They can't be everywhere at once! The problem has to be addressed on a larger scale, as you and Sukwoo point out. It will take some serious national will in order to do so, as well as efforts from those living in the worst neighborhoods today. God willing we will see it in our lifetime.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

This might be slightly off topic, but...

The best anti-poverty program is a job. The promise of employment and economic advancement is the best incentive to encourage hard work and discourage anti-social behavior. It's truly a cruel twist of history that during the 60s and 70s, just as the legal and extralegal roadblocks of segregation (which kept African-Americans poor) were fading, the American economy started to undergo restructuring which largely eliminated the blue collar jobs which have historically been the first step of the ladder for economic advancement of the poor.

It's a tragedy that this occured. Durring my brief tenure as an Urban Planning grad student, I did some PA work for a Community Health Center. They were trying to bring jobs into a mostly abandoned industrial corridor because they realized that unemployment was perhaps the biggest health issue facing their community. Unfortunately, this is a message that many community organizers won't rally behind. It's easier for the poor to set up an "us against them" scapegoating attitude with employers than it is to advocate policies that will actually bring jobs to the area.

[BRU67]

Maybe I'm missing something but aren't there still entry level jobs out there? It's hard to pinpoint an exact number but many estimate say that we have 20-35 million illegal immigrants in this nation. Their growth was certainly much, much higher than increases in the African-American population. And they didn't come here to sit on the stoop all day or sell drugs -- they're here to work in low wage service jobs. They may not be good opportunities, but they are opportunities.

[aragx6]

Illegals work in low wage service jobs for less than minimum wage. Business owners love them because they can pay them lousy wages for too much work and pay them all under the table. Often those jobs aren't available to an American anymore.

The service jobs that are available don't pay well enough to support a person anyway- especially in expensive cities like Chicago.

There used to be many more factory jobs that were unskilled, but well-paying labor. Those jobs are essentially gone now.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by aragx6

Illegals work in low wage service jobs for less than minimum wage. Business owners love them because they can pay them lousy wages for too much work and pay them all under the table. Often those jobs aren't available to an American anymore.

The service jobs that are available don't pay well enough to support a person anyway- especially in expensive cities like Chicago.

There used to be many more factory jobs that were unskilled, but well-paying labor. Those jobs are essentially gone now.

Oh, they don't pay well enough. Got it. Wonder if that would remain the case if Americans were willing to work these jobs and easy to exploit illegal immigrants weren't necessary to fill them (or as many anyway). Don't know the answer but it's an interesting thought.