kenwood - Greenwood and 47th (Chicago, Chatham: apartments, condos, travel)

[chickaboo]

we just saw a great open house on the south of 47th on Greenwood.
The location seems to be great, close to bus stops, metra and lake. there are a lot of mansion on Greenwood on the left of the house to 51st, including some houses belong to very famious people ...
But on the right side to 47th, there are some old apartments that looks kinda shady. 47th also looks a little rundown compare to the 51st street only a few blocks away.

Can anyone give me any tips about this area?
Thanks so much!

[chickaboo]

can anyone help?thx

[prairiestate]

What you've seen describes it pretty well, it's a neighborhood in transition. There's still a long way to go before it's completely gentrified, but I think it's reasonably safe now. Unfortunately, it's adjacent to some of the highest crime neighborhoods in the city, so there is some spillover from that, which pushes the crime rate higher then it might otherwise be. There's some local shopping nearby, including a new Treasure Island supermarket in Hyde Park. Down in Chatham around 87th and the Ryan there are an increasing number of big box stores. You have the Metra Electric and some express buses to get you downtown. All in all, it's probably a good investment. You need to be a bit of an urban pioneer to move there, but not as much as in some other parts of the city.

[Manigault]

The address you mention on Greenwood is in Kenwood, which is an even nicer section on the south side than Hyde Park but most people consider it part of Hyde Park. Between 47th street and 51st street is Kenwood, where the mansions are. The reason that north of 47th st looks a little seamy is that the U of C's urban renewal project in the sixties ended at 47th street and no farther north.

If you saw some dicey apartments at 47th and Greenwood, that is because they are subsidized housing. That's what those brick apartments are on the south side of 47th street near Greenwood. There are a number of new townhouses in Oakdale (ie north of 47th on Greenwood) all the way down to 39th st. So the area is definitely on the upswing. It is no where near any high crime areas and the university police patrol all the way to 47th street. There is no 'urban pioneering' in the area since the houses date to the 1890's and the townhouses are less than 20 years old. The area is already gentrified so no one changing anything by moving there.

But 47th street is not 51st street. Transportation options are slightly less on 47th street but the folks I know in the area walk to the Metra station at lake part (where a lot of people park) or take the bus to lake park and transfer to one of the express buses.

The Harvard School is at 47th and Ellis, just a block away. In the twenties, that's where Bobby Franks was snatched by Leopold and Loeb Its a famous incident but I won't bore you with the details.

I do know of several people who have purchased Kenwood condos around 47th street on Ellis and Greenwood and they are very happy with the surroundings.

[prairiestate]

The residents of Hyde Park and Kenwood are pretty well to do for the most part, and they are not likely to be out robbing people on the street. Therefore, I'll stand by my assertion that the Hyde Park area lies near some very rough neighborhoods, which would explain the somewhat regular occurrence of violent crime in the area. It's not a daily event, sometimes not even weekly, but it's enough to make me think twice about Hyde Park, not because of the community itself, but because of it's neighbors.

Hyde Park Crime Watch

Then there's this excerpt, several pages in:

"This area of Hyde Park is quite handsome during the day with its old trees now turning autumnally yellow and red, its elegant brownstones, its elaborate townhouses. But at night, the ghetto just to the north spills over into the nicer university district, and the haggard wander the streets asking for money, for cigarettes, sometimes barely conscious at all, mumbling through rotten teeth and matted hair. Sometimes AIDS has eaten their bodies to skeletons. Sometimes they just sway, blank-eyed, sweating in the throes of a tired high. If they can no longer ask for money, they curse silently or just stare. I step over collapsed bodies often in the doorway to my apartment building when I walk home from a late night at the library."

Which originally came from here:

Ain’t It Beautiful (This Nightly Scream) « Fire Shut Up In My Bones

So, I'll also stand by my assertion that the area is not completely gentrified yet.

[Manigault]

Well, there are several problems: Just north of Hyde Park -Kenwood is Oakdale, which is not a ghetto in the literal or more commonly used sense. It happens to be more townhouses and a lot of new construction.

Secondly, 47th and Greenwood, particularly south of 47th has always been home to the gentry in Chicago. Therefore, there is no reason for it to become 'gentrified'. There may be some homes north of 47th on Greenwood which need renovation, but its not an area where far-seeing people can buy and fix up an overlooked gem. So it is not an area experiencing gentrification.

As for ragged, mumbling zombies asking for money -- that sounds like downtown. I really haven't seen that in Hyde Park -- or the collapsed bodies in the doorways. And I know that is not was goes on in Kenwood.

It is just inaccurate to call the area crime-ridden. I find the comments particularly uninformed. Myself, I didn't read this somewhere. I've lived in the area for more than 30 years.

[prairiestate]

I'll grant you there are a number of very nice blocks that have been completely rehabbed, but people do need to travel out beyond their block into the neighborhood, and there are clearly still blocks in the area that need work.

I also didn't call the area crime ridden. I said violent crime does NOT occur on a daily or even weekly basis, but if you look at that blog, there is clearly more violent crime then in many other parts of the city, such as, for instance, the neighborhoods on the far southwest side near me. Most months have at least one shooting, though it does seem to be mostly on the south end of Hyde Park. I'm just saying that's a bit more then I'm comfortable with. I just put the info out there, and other people will need to make their own decisions about their comfort level. I know there are plenty of people farther out in the suburbs that are terrified to even go downtown or to the southwest side.

As for the zombies, I think there is some poetic license there, though I have to say I've never seen that downtown either. Homeless people, certainly, but nothing quite like that. I'm pretty sure you have seen homeless people in Hyde Park, even if not to that degree.

[chickaboo]

Originally Posted by Manigault

If you saw some dicey apartments at 47th and Greenwood, that is because they are subsidized housing.

This is actually what I'm worried about, because the place I saw was right next to there....

[Manigault]

It turns out that the folks in subsidized housing in Hyde Park (and there are two areas) are some of the most well-behaved in Chicago public housing. Who would mess up the chance of living there? So the units have very low turnover. Those apartments on the south side of 47th street have not been the scene of any noted incidents. 63rd and Cottage is a different story, but thats Woodlawn, not Hyde Park.

As to where you looked, on the NW corner of 47th is Little Black Pearl, a dance and art workshop, less than two years old. It has some nice design in its annex next door. Across the street on the NE corner they are putting up new townhouses. Across the street from the condo you looked at are three doctors in those three mansions; one a doctor couple and in the other a doctor married to a realtor. I can describe the couple at the end of that block, too. I think they are two teachers, but I'm not sure.

My friend sold his condo in the building you looked at and made a nice profit.

[chickaboo]

wow...thanks!, that's a lot of information about the area, thanks a bunch!